ShortScale.org

Aeon wrote:I don't disagree, scordatura's been around for centuries.

Christ.

BacchusPaul wrote: Christ.

Oh woops, did I use a word you didn't understand.

What a comeback.
You've puit paul down, he'll be crying for weeks.

*Golf Clap*

No, but I suspect you tried to.

Aeon wrote:

BacchusPaul wrote: Christ.

Oh woops, did I use a word you didn't understand.

If you're going to be a cunt and use words you looked up to sound clever, at least spell the words you're being a cunt with correctly. There is a 'h' in whoops.

Trying to sound clever when you're spouting nonsense is usually quite difficult. When you do it in an overly aggressive manner, it's practically impossible. The smartest thing you could do now is to scratch the last week's worth of posts and start again.

Aeon wrote:

Fran wrote:

Aeon wrote:I would hardly consider myself a diehard fan of them, but I can't really think of too many other bands in recent years that have made as many progressions on how the electric guitar is played as they have.

Alternate tunings are nothing new. I do like the voicings they get but dude, its a bit old hat. If you want to hear a different approach to guitar playing check Agata from Melt Banana.

I don't disagree, scordatura's been around for centuries. But they've also employed alternative timbers, 3rd bridge techniques, and the use of random objects -- all without the use of cheap tricks like modulation or delay.

That Melt Banana video is interesting, but it sounded rather shrill. I couldn't tell much from the video but it seemed like he was just doing pretty typical Tom Morello-esque stuff.

Agata is i suppose a player that has evolved from the Morello school of thought, for better listening check 'Cellscape' out.
Your other point does'nt mean much because players like Hendrix, Page and EVH to name a few got new sounds from the guitar without the aid of FX long before SY and they changed the course of guitar music. SY have not achieved much by comparison, and i am a fan so that is not a bias opinion.
Back to the main point, if SY do endorse this bridge then big deal. It certainly wont sell it me.

It's the fact that you've used a scholarly sounding term when a simpler, more universally understood term would have suited better. To describe what Sonic Youth do as scordatura isn't quite accurate. Scordatura is usually used to describe alterations made to orchestral string instruments. Despite what wikipedia might tell you, we can't really consider tuning variations in folk music as scordatura. I think it is fair to say that Sonic Youth can be compard more comfortably with folk traditions rather than Western European Art music (this is a terrible term, but it has its uses).

The idkea of using third bridges and random objects is nothing particularly new. Anyone with a passing interest in the New York school of compositioin in the fifties and sixties (and perhaps a little imagination, too) iis bound to start considering such approaches to the instrument particularly in the wake of Cage's influential works for prepared piano (it is worth pointing out that the idea was hardly new when Cage was composing these pieces).

There were some prominent pieces from the sixties (I think) for prepared guitar, involvinig objects inserted around the instruement and the use of third bridges, but the name of the composer escapes me.

Do not assume to be smarter than me, it makes both of us look foolish. The term 'scordatura' is well established in my vocabulary, given that I compose music for orchestral instruments and am well versed in all aspects of string technique as well as modern compositional practises.

Fran wrote: Agata is i suppose a player that has evolved from the Morello school of thought, for better listening check 'Cellscape' out.
Your other point does'nt mean much because players like Hendrix, Page and EVH to name a few got new sounds from the guitar without the aid of FX long before SY and they changed the course of guitar music. SY have not achieved much by comparison, and i am a fan so that is not a bias opinion.
Back to the main point, if SY do endorse this bridge then big deal. It certainly wont sell it me.

I don't disagree with the Hendrix et al. point, but my point was that of recent years SY were the main proponents of their alternative approach to guitar. I mean you can argue against it by bringing up folk tunings or Nashville tuning or one-off recordings with a weird tuning (eg: Lou Reed's guitar with the strings all tuned in unison to D), but it's all not quite in the same sense that Moore and Ranaldo do it. The intervals and chord voicings that they play are practically unheard of in a rock context. They certainly influenced many more popular bands to follow suit, at least for some songs -- I don't know what else you'd expect them to "achieve" in that sense. We're talking about pop music here, not 19th century literature or modern film or whatever.

I'll try to check out Agata, he seems interesting.

And on topic, yes this bridge is going to sell a lot based on hype and artist endorsement. While it may be a nice replacement for a CIJ bridge, an AVRI or vintage one doesn't really need it. $160 is a relatively fair price considering the cost of design and quality of materials. Plus it's a clever 'solution' to the fickle floating bridge design.

Aeon wrote:While it may be a nice replacement for a CIJ bridge, an AVRI or vintage one doesn't really need it. $160 is a relatively fair price considering the cost of design and quality of materials. Plus it's a clever 'solution' to the fickle floating bridge design.

No, sorry, i disagree. Fair price at $160.00 is a joke. I would expect a built in piezo for that price atleast. I'm going to be honest here, i posted videos up on Youtube where i use a stock bridge and shred, divebomb and upbend. And nearly everytime that system returns to pitch. The rocking bridge is an excellent design especially used in the correct way. Are you involved in this design or something?

I ask you... what does this bridge offer?

New Bridge - $160.00
Old Bridge - $40.00


JUSTIFY THE DIFFERENCE!

Fran wrote:No, sorry, i disagree. Fair price at $160.00 is a joke. I would expect a built in piezo for that price atleast. I'm going to be honest here, i posted videos up on Youtube where i use a stock bridge and shred, divebomb and upbend. And nearly everytime that system returns to pitch. The rocking bridge is an excellent design especially used in the correct way. Are you involved in this design or something?

I ask you... what does this bridge offer?

New Bridge - $160.00
Old Bridge - $40.00


JUSTIFY THE DIFFERENCE!

$160 is not going into the cost of manufacture, it's compensation for the designer's vision. I have no connection to this product. A lot of boutique effects pedals are pricey, but the cost is covering the materials plus the design.

I have no need for it, as I also have no problem using the stock bridge. Nobody -needs- it, but if they want to modify their guitar, why the hell not. It seems like a better replacement than Mustang saddles or a tune-o-matic. As I said, people with a CIJ bridge might benefit from it since the materials used in those aren't quite as good as the American versions.

Plus, seeing as no one here has actually had experience with the thing, it's all kind of moot anyways. I will say this though: a Mexican Stratocaster with a good replacement trem sounds and responds a hell of a lot better than one that's stock. So perhaps this might achieve the same tangible improvement for CIJ offsets.

Fran wrote:I ask you... what does this bridge offer?

New Bridge - $160.00
Old Bridge - $40.00


JUSTIFY THE DIFFERENCE!

I spent $40 on a TOM and $50 on a Mustang bridge and still ended up using the stock saddles soooo maybe if I spent a little more on these new ones I wouldn't end up upset and having to commit floating bridge induced suicide.

BacchusPaul wrote:It's the fact that you've used a scholarly sounding term when a simpler, more universally understood term would have suited better. To describe what Sonic Youth do as scordatura isn't quite accurate. Scordatura is usually used to describe alterations made to orchestral string instruments. Despite what wikipedia might tell you, we can't really consider tuning variations in folk music as scordatura. I think it is fair to say that Sonic Youth can be compard more comfortably with folk traditions rather than Western European Art music (this is a terrible term, but it has its uses).

The idkea of using third bridges and random objects is nothing particularly new. Anyone with a passing interest in the New York school of compositioin in the fifties and sixties (and perhaps a little imagination, too) iis bound to start considering such approaches to the instrument particularly in the wake of Cage's influential works for prepared piano (it is worth pointing out that the idea was hardly new when Cage was composing these pieces).

There were some prominent pieces from the sixties (I think) for prepared guitar, involvinig objects inserted around the instruement and the use of third bridges, but the name of the composer escapes me.

Do not assume to be smarter than me, it makes both of us look foolish. The term 'scordatura' is well established in my vocabulary, given that I compose music for orchestral instruments and am well versed in all aspects of string technique as well as modern compositional practises.

haha.. fucking School'd. I love Paul.

Aeon wrote:Plus, seeing as no one here has actually had experience with the thing, it's all kind of moot anyways. I will say this though: a Mexican Stratocaster with a good replacement trem sounds and responds a hell of a lot better than one that's stock. So perhaps this might achieve the same tangible improvement for CIJ offsets.

It's not a replacement trem. It's a replacement bridge. Part of the Trem system. It also doesn't rock, which means the trem system is now not working as designed.

Mike wrote:
It's not a replacement trem. It's a replacement bridge. Part of the Trem system. It also doesn't rock, which means the trem system is now not working as designed.

I was making the analogy that a cheap bridge/trem on Strats, when replaced with something nicer, do sound a lot better -- and so perhaps the cheap bridge on CIJ offsets will sound better with this replacement, due to better materials, more contact with the body, etc.

According the product information, the saddles are coated with a chrome plating to help reduce friction. Plus, you can always throw a little graphite on. Plenty of offset using bands have used guitars with set bridges replacing the original rocking tremolo and don't seem to have any issues. If there were major concerns, I doubt Fender would have abandoned the whole idea for the Classic Player series too, since a tune-o-matic seems a hell of a lot more precarious in regards to string breakage than this design.

As I said, I will be happy to stick with my original bridge, but for those with problems with the bridge this seems like a better solution than using alternative saddles.

I have a Classic Player Jaguar. The TOM still rocks with trem usage, as it should. The strings don't move on the saddles.

They didn't "abandon" the old bridge, it's still in use on the more expensive AVRI guitars. The Classic Player is just a different twist on the instrument.

I own an AVRI, and am aware of the thinskin reissues, etc. I know they didn't abandon the design for those models. I had no idea, however, that the tune-o-matics on the classic players move. How are those bridges mounted?

In any case, I'm sure we'll be hearing some first-hand experience reports from people from OSG before too long.

or maybe from the various people here that have them, rather than someone at offset...

stewart wrote:or maybe from the various people here that have them, rather than someone at offset...

is there anyone here with one of these new-fangled bridges?

stewart wrote:or maybe from the various people here that have them, rather than someone at offset...

There are a few people at OSG that already ordered it, hence my comment.

you know, if they enabled you to put a bridge cover over the top of it, my respect would skyrocket. oh, and the price is completely off. $50 tops, and that's being generous.