NEW Fender Blacktop Jaguar

jagsonic · Post by **jagsonic** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:36 am

peecheeclean wrote:i'd love to get a mustang w/o its current tremolo, and maybe a humbucker w coil tapping.

you mean a reissue of a cyclone...

avj · Post by **avj** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:08 am

After seeing the original thread with the other models at HC, I would have never guessed these could be real. The images look like terrible Kisekae hack-jobs, and the copy seems to have been edited by a fifth grader. Perhaps this is just how they do things internally at Fender, but damn.

I suppose in a world where Squier has put out that absolutely fuck-ugly Jaguar bass, anything is possible.

I'm also not sure how they could truly be $450, as that would make them even cheaper than the Standard Series Teles and Strats. It seems more likely they'd sit somewhere between the Standard and Classic Player Jag/Jazz models, but I guess we'll see.

It's also extremely annoying that the OP at HC -- the same guy who leaked the Squier Jag Bass info -- doesn't offer any insight into the source of this stuff. Perhaps it's a shill at Fender responsible for all of this crap, with the intent being to just throw some good-enough mockups together and get them into the wild to gauge the community-at-large's response. If they're a flop, the only backlash is some faceless forum poster losing credibility; if they're a success, they've got months to chuck together a few new drawing packages and release to manufacturing. There's nothing new in any of these models from a design perspective (except maybe pickguards), so it's not as if they have to tool up for a new batch of anything.

SKC Willie · Post by **SKC Willie** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:13 am

avj wrote:I suppose in a world where Squier has put out that absolutely fuck-ugly Jaguar bass, anything is possible.

Did they ever actually come out with that Jag bass? I have never seen an actual picture of one.

avj · Post by **avj** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:20 am

portugalwillie wrote:
avj wrote:I suppose in a world where Squier has put out that absolutely fuck-ugly Jaguar bass, anything is possible.

Did they ever actually come out with that Jag bass? I have never seen an actual picture of one.

Unfortunately. I realize people disliked the Fender Jaguar bass for many reasons, but at least it attempted to retain most of the aesthetic.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:17 am

Boring Jag is boring.

What exactly is so hard about releasing a Jaguar with humbuckers, Chrome lowerwith Toggly and a hard tail and bridge that evokes a jag trem and complements the aesthetic whilst keeping a a good break angle. All these designs seem to be piddling about this essentialy kurdtz set up but not just doing it. I'd buy one like that not because of the Curdtz but just because thats what I and a shit load of others want to buy (Judging from the amount of times I've seen people enquiring about just such a set up)

fender just stop fucking about and do it you eedjiots.

James · Post by **James** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:28 pm

Mages wrote:3.) fender USA/mexico have never made mustangs. ever.

The vintage ones are USA made. It was only in the 90s they started production in Japan.

James · Post by **James** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:30 pm

Dave wrote:Boring Jag is boring.

What exactly is so hard about releasing a Jaguar with humbuckers, Chrome lowerwith Toggly and a hard tail and bridge that evokes a jag trem and complements the aesthetic whilst keeping a a good break angle. All these designs seem to be piddling about this essentialy kurdtz set up but not just doing it. I'd buy one like that not because of the Curdtz but just because thats what I and a shit load of others want to buy (Judging from the amount of times I've seen people enquiring about just such a set up)

fender just stop fucking about and do it you eedjiots.

The Classic Player HH is pretty close. You can lock the trem, it has the break angle and humbuckers. Has a modern radius on the fretboard. It doesn't have a toggley but you can also add one.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:06 pm

James wrote:
Dave wrote:Boring Jag is boring.

What exactly is so hard about releasing a Jaguar with humbuckers, Chrome lowerwith Toggly and a hard tail and bridge that evokes a jag trem and complements the aesthetic whilst keeping a a good break angle. All these designs seem to be piddling about this essentialy kurdtz set up but not just doing it. I'd buy one like that not because of the Curdtz but just because thats what I and a shit load of others want to buy (Judging from the amount of times I've seen people enquiring about just such a set up)

fender just stop fucking about and do it you eedjiots.
The Classic Player HH is pretty close. You can lock the trem, it has the break angle and humbuckers. Has a modern radius on the fretboard. It doesn't have a toggley but you can also add one.

Yeah I get that and not knocking it as a valid way forward but it seems they are knocking out various iterations that all hint at, but always shy away from, what is a commonly sought after design... but never quite getting there. CPs have no toggly as you say, JP HH No Toggly, Black wossname no chromes. So mods are easy enough but I doubt Fender care much about giving the fans room to play...Why don't they just you know, make one?

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:43 pm

Fender Japan has a Teh Kurtz model that they sell from time to time with all the mods and occasionally show up on eBay. They never officially released it here in the US.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Fender-Japan- ... 3caf868631

http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Fender-Japan- ... 3a5d318c31

http://cgi.ebay.com/FENDER-JAPAN-JAGUAR ... 3a5d2535d9

The last link is the cheapest but only has two knobs and no Gibson style toggle switch.

astro · Post by **astro** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:58 pm

Mages wrote:there's a couple factors working against the mustang being reissued by fender USA/mexico/squier/custom shop/whatever.

1.) the market is flooded with vintage mustangs. they were one of CBS Fender's most popular guitars. as a result of this they are easy to obtain and at reasonable prices. that's why you see so many bands playing them. this gives fender little to no justification for selling you an AVRI mustang for $1500. hell, with a little effort you could find a find a decent vintage one for half that price.

Bro deals aside, vintage mustangs in newish condition generally cost roughly close to $1k in North America. Anything close to Squier or MIM Standards in price are usually in rough shape, at least cosmetically.

Mages wrote:3.) fender USA/mexico have never made mustangs. ever. they would have to start up a whole new operation, spending a lot of money in the process for a guitar they probably wont be able to sell for that much money.

If they're already making Jaguars at various price points, then they have all the tooling needed to make the necks, which I would assume to be the most labour intensive aspect of creating a new guitar. The bodies are just a plank cut by a CNC machine, so I can't imagine that this would require much effort to recreate. As far as the rest, the pickups are essentially strat pickups, and the trem/bridge can't be that hard to come by, you can even buy generic unbranded mustang trems from Allparts so there must be a factory somewhere in Japan churning them out by the bucketful. As far as I know, screwing all the parts together is still done by hand, so I can't see that requiring any special research or equipment.

Mages wrote:2.) squier making mustangs, we can only dream I'm afraid. squier only uses generic strat hardware. the cyclone is the closest they'll ever get to a mustang. I like the duo-sonic II idea, but I can't imagine them actually doing that. I think bringing back the cyclone is more likely.

Squier Mustangs... well, I can dream, can't I?

I still have faint hope for a duosonic II. I don't think anybody ever imagined that Squier would ever reissue the original duosonic, especially with a 24" neck. So, who knows? A cyclone reissue would be cool too. Cyclones were popular (at least popular enough to have 5 different models including the Squiers and the MIA's for the Japanese market) so I'm not sure why they discontinued them.

jagsonic wrote:
peecheeclean wrote:i'd love to get a mustang w/o its current tremolo, and maybe a humbucker w coil tapping.
you mean a reissue of a cyclone...

Cool... when did they make competition orange mustangs? Or is that a stick-on stripe?

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:11 pm

astro wrote:
► Show Spoiler
Cool... when did they make competition orange mustangs? Or is that a stick-on stripe?

i'm not sure what you mean by competition orange mustangs... that's clearly a graffiti-ish yellow cyclone, but based on the poor angle, and inaccurate length, i'm saying it's a sticker.

Mages · Post by **Mages** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:34 pm

James wrote:
Mages wrote:3.) fender USA/mexico have never made mustangs. ever.
The vintage ones are USA made. It was only in the 90s they started production in Japan.

I mean Fender USA in it's current incarnation, which doesn't have much ties to the original company, and specifically the current Fender USA factories in corona, CA and mexico.

@ astro

some good points there dude. I think you're right, a made in mexico mustang doesn't seem like it would be that hard for them to do.

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:01 am

The jag looks a lot like a Toronado. I like it, could be a good guitar to get for some humbucker tones.

Berto · Post by **Berto** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:27 am

i really dig the jaguar even though its been neutered

Post by **dots** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:25 am

i think the point about it being called something other than a jag is good one. it's as much toronado as it is jag, if you think about it.

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:06 am

OH YEAH I FORGOT ABOUT THOSE 24" TORONAODS

jagsonic · Post by **jagsonic** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:01 am

astro wrote:Cool... when did they make competition orange mustangs? Or is that a stick-on stripe?

It's a sticker on a yellow cyclone...

Post by **dots** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:19 pm

hotrodperlmutter wrote:OH YEAH I FORGOT ABOUT THOSE 24" TORONAODS

and all those jags with toggles and no trem or rhythm circuit, too? please. jagmasters came in two scales (even if one is the preferred model). additionally, toronados are as close to shortscale as they are to fender scale since they're 24.75". dual-chrome hums? check. hard tail? check. toggle on the lower horn? check. offset? check.

i'm not even suggesting the guitar should be named a toronado, either. i just think it's a complete misnomer as a jag is all. give it a new name, fender. you used to do this all the time.

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:52 pm

well then by that logic, you're saying that a HH special shouldn't be called a jag (minus the toggley).

toronado's are 24.75" jaguars. they're jaguar bodys with no forearm contours, in les paul mode. putting HH configuration (retaining the single vol/tone, mind you), adding a hardtail and a 3 way switch doesn't make it more of a toronado or any less of a jag. it makes it a new, less sophisticated version of a classic. nowt wrong with that, especially if it gets some kid interested in playing loud rock music and pissing off his parents.

if they made a stop tail strat with two humbuckers and a toggle switch, indifference would ensue. but they actually make a stripped down offset AND RETAIN THE SHORTSCALE, and everyone's got some beef with it.

Pens · Post by **Pens** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:21 pm

I love this thing. Need Lefty option.