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If you use the spring method, I think it can still bend but just in one direction. With the block method you get no movement at all. At least thats what I remember happening and why I went with the block.

I used to hate strat bridges back when I first started playing. As I've got better at setting my guitars up properly I've come around to them. My Batwing is easily the best Strat-style trem I've used, and probably the best all-round trem ever. Set up correctly I can push it down til the tip of the arm touches the body and the strings have turned into slack rubber bands. Whack it back up and it's all nice and in tune. It's stupidly good.



This isn't my guitar but it's the same bridge. The bridge itself isn't screwed into the body. The front edge is a fulcrum and rests on the bar secured by three screws in the picture. This means there is effectively no limit to how far you can push it.

I think it's a setup and maintenance issue, nothing more. They are excellent bridges if looked after. The way they look is another matter. They look okay on strats, but when they're retrofitted onto other guitars which used to have much more elaborate bridge/tailpiece arrangements it can look proper fucking gash. Although I agree that the Jag bridge is a piece of shitty poo. It drove me mad until I just drilled the holes out to accept a fancy tunomatic roller bridge.

damn, that fiesta red is bangin'.

shame they fucked up the flow with that pickguard.

chemistforhire wrote:If you use the spring method, I think it can still bend but just in one direction. With the block method you get no movement at all. At least thats what I remember happening and why I went with the block.

With five fully extended springs pulling the bridge back, it takes close to super human strength to get that thing to dive, especially without the bar to give you leverage. Certainly won't bend notes flat if you've got five stiff springs holding the bridge.

I don't want to maintain something I don't use. I'm not going to sit here defending my hatred of them. I do not ever want the bridge to move, and that bridge moves. Fender is finally putting out something other than strat trems on shit, and that's a good thing to have.

Look, you have your Jagmaster. That's all cool, if you like those cursed things. But don't fucking whine because they put something else that other people might want on a guitar.

honeyiscool wrote:

chemistforhire wrote:If you use the spring method, I think it can still bend but just in one direction. With the block method you get no movement at all. At least thats what I remember happening and why I went with the block.

With five fully extended springs pulling the bridge back, it takes close to super human strength to get that thing to dive, especially without the bar to give you leverage. Certainly won't bend notes flat if you've got five stiff springs holding the bridge.

I somewhat agree with this but I think most of this depends on the quality of the springs used. Some springs are pretty weak. Regardless, I prefer the block because you have something to resonate through that gives the perception of better sustain and you avoid resonate trem spring vibrations. ( I don't know if you have experienced when the trem springs vibrate and contribute to noise.)

Yeah, I like Baby and Sporty, some like Ginger, Becks likes Posh. Nobody likes Scary.

I also am not a fan of the strat trem. Don't fucking tell me that it's the best trem ever if it's set up right. It might suit YOUR purposes, but it can't be compared to a top mounted spring or internal vertical spring vibrato. It has to do with the design; the curve of the vibrato range and the way using it interacts with the natural vibration of the instrument. I hate the fact that there is a fundamental difference in design, akin to front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive if we were talking about cars-push vs pull, yet all anybody ever weighs when discussing vibrato systems is the tuning stability and range.

That said, I actually like the look of the guitar this thread is about. Can't find a thing that doesn't set right. THAT said, I don't want one.

Nick wrote:I also am not a fan of the strat trem. Don't fucking tell me that it's the best trem ever if it's set up right. It might suit YOUR purposes, but it can't be compared to a top mounted spring or internal vertical spring vibrato. It has to do with the design; the curve of the vibrato range and the way using it interacts with the natural vibration of the instrument. I hate the fact that there is a fundamental difference in design, akin to front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive if we were talking about cars-push vs pull, yet all anybody ever weighs when discussing vibrato systems is the tuning stability and range.

That said, I actually like the look of the guitar this thread is about. Can't find a thing that doesn't set right. THAT said, I don't want one.

I actually didn't call the Strat trem the best trem ever. I called my Wilkinson bridge the best vibrato unit I've ever used, objectively speaking. It's a highly modified Strat vibrato unit, with knife edges built into the mounting holes, improved saddles, and pretty much all steel everywhere. It's also a $90 bridge (for a MIK). Callaham is a $150 part and it offers a lot of the same improvements, but in a more vintage-correct fashion, but I don't think the quality's much better than a Wilkinson, strictly speaking. If you've ever used a good quality Strat vibrato, i.e. Gotoh, Hipshot, Wilkinson, Callaham, etc., I think you'd agree with me that they're all pretty great and offer great performance. The nice thing is, these bridges easily drop into just about any Fender with a Strat trem.

I think in stock form, and especially of import quality, they're rather shitty things if you want to use them floating, but they lock down easy and I find the locking to be painless. I'm not sure why my experiences differ from others but everything from a true genuine Fender to a lowly SX seems pretty easy to lock for me. They're also nice to use decked, in which case the quality of the trem doesn't matter much at all, and you still get downbending.

As for what you said about the philosophy of whammies, I actually agree with you. I prefer vibratos that have a separate bridge to the vibrato mechanism (Bigsby, Stetsbar, Kahler, Mustang, Jazz/Jag, etc.), usually with a non-moving bridge, although I suppose the Jag and the Mustang bridges do rock a bit, but in theory, they don't have to. As long as you can eliminate the binding at the saddles, which I don't think the Jag/Jazz really does but Mustang certainly does (which is why I think it's OK to tape the Mustang bridge, though I don't) and certainly a roller Tune-O-Matic or a Graph Tech bridge does, I think they just feel more natural to me. Also, they tend to tune faster than fulcrum style bridges and it's possible to adjust action and vibrato separately. More importantly, I think the angle of whammy bar is nicer with a non-integrated vibrato tailpiece. Also, they do not interfere with palm muting and all these things.

However, I think in terms of range and stability, hence I say objectively speaking, fulcrum bridges are extremely good, and they're also widely available, too. I think if some people really took the time to design a really good Mustang vibrato, with high quality parts, it could very much be the best vibrato in the world. Unfortunately, we're sorta stuck with what we've got. It's still my favorite, though.

it was Ekwatts that said his Burns strat trem is probably the best all around trem ever, but I wasn't talking to him specifically either; just anyone who claims that a strat type trem (or anything else) is the best ever, when it is so drastically different in behavior to other trem systems that it just doesn't work for some people. I'm just getting tired as a guitarist of hearing that I need to give them a chance, or that I just haven't tried a good enough strat trem.

You made some good points about the location of the trem arm and the tailpiece/bridge setup. That pretty much sums it up for me also, it feels way more natural than a thru-body strat bridge. I have played many strat trems on guitars over the years, some better than others, and I can see the arguments made about them, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a different monster entirely.

hotrodperlmutter wrote:damn, that fiesta red is bangin'.

Its actually called Guards Red, its a British thing.

Fran wrote:

hotrodperlmutter wrote:damn, that fiesta red is bangin'.

Its actually called Guards Red, its a British thing.

Bahaha. Still sexy.