Mustang Trem Mods - Tuning Stability

Dice · Post by **Dice** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:01 am

Hey guys - I searched, I promise! I'm trying to find out what some of the methods are that guys are using to block a Mustang trem - or to improve tuning stability overall. There is nothing terribly wrong w/ mine, but if I bump the trem/tail piece a little it throws thing off. I don't want to do anything "permanent" - even inside the cavities (I've heard of a method using wood screws). Even just a link to a thread on the topic (which I was too stupid to find on my own) would be great.

Sorry to beat a dead horse - I'm sure that I am.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:07 am

hmm, it shouldn't be going out of tune just from that. i can have the trem arm pushed against the guard on my mustang, about as close to a divebomb as you can get on one, and it'll come back in tune.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:16 pm

it maybe just needs new springs.

More Cowbell · Post by **More Cowbell** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:43 pm

I cut some wood down to size to fit inside the trem cavity and surround the pegs when the trem is put down. Then once you tune it up it will push against the wood (shims) and not move.

Dice · Post by **Dice** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:29 pm

Cowbell - I'll look in to that - sounds like what I'm wanting to do. Thanks a lot.

Reece/Stewart - its not a big change, but enough to notice. It really doesn't do it after a divebomb - but if I pull "up" on the arm, or bump the bridge with a rearward motion, it raises the level that it floats at slightly, and sharpens things.

matocaster · Post by **matocaster** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:50 pm

I did a mod like this years ago, you know the posts the springs connect to? Well I removed those two posts from the string mounting bar did away with the springs, and found two bolts (I think they were standard half inch bolts, but this was many beers ago) and ran the bolts up through the bottom of the trem plate put a few small washers on (to let the strings pass through the underside) and there ya go, instant and easy Mustang hardtail.

Keep in mind this was an American mustang, the threads matched up perfect to the standard bolt. Not sure if the threads are the same for the imports (most likely not), if not try metric bolts. The upside to this method is you can switch it back easy if ya don't like it. No permanent damage. And it's as hardtail as you can get, super stable, tighten those bolts down and she aint goin nowhere, perfect tuning all the time!

Dice · Post by **Dice** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:41 pm

Mato - THAT is something I'm going to look at doing. I might even flip that tail piece around and snug it all the way down and just run the strings in from the back. My jag is American ('65) - so I'll figure out what bolts I need - and will start with 1/2 inch! The only reason I'm worried about not doing damage to it is that it'd be a shame to modify a vintage piece over something like that. Thanks for the input - much appreciated.

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:53 pm

some guy on jagstang a while back had a stop tail piece that he had somehow attached to the trem plate. i wish i could find the picture... FRAN?

Ty · Post by Ty » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:15 pm

hotrodperlmutter wrote:some guy on jagstang a while back had a stop tail piece that he had somehow attached to the trem plate. i wish i could find the picture... FRAN?

I know that Richard's Jag-stang has a Gibson style stop tail piece on a trem plate.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:38 pm

I thought he had a stoptail and re added the mustang tailpiece?

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:55 pm

anyone have pics? or are we supposed to imagine it? i guess it's not hard, but i'm american a visual learner.

matocaster · Post by **matocaster** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:31 pm

Dice wrote: I might even flip that tail piece around and snug it all the way down and just run the strings in from the back.

Hey no prob man, just a a quick thought tho, if you flip the bar around vs. going under the bar with the strings you are losing some of the tension needed for the mustang bridge. You may run into a issue of the strings poping out of the saddle or the bridge floating back and fourth too much and messing with your intonation when you play. I have always found it best to go under the bar with the strings, it was more stable for me. But thats just my two cents. Good luck! Let us know how it works for ya!

Dice · Post by **Dice** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:41 pm

matocaster wrote:
Dice wrote: I might even flip that tail piece around and snug it all the way down and just run the strings in from the back.
Hey no prob man, just a a quick thought tho, if you flip the bar around vs. going under the bar with the strings you are losing some of the tension needed for the mustang bridge. You may run into a issue of the strings poping out of the saddle or the bridge floating back and fourth too much and messing with your intonation when you play. I have always found it best to go under the bar with the strings, it was more stable for me. But thats just my two cents. Good luck! Let us know how it works for ya!

I did think of that. A lot of the Les Paul guys "top wrap" their strings over the tailpiece - I tried it, didn't work at all. You do need that tension.

I'm thinking that if I drop the TP bar all the way down, that it will lower the holes enough. It will also bring the bar a little closer to the bridge (mine tilts away from the bridge) which will allow the strings to come out a little higher while still keeping downward tension. I'll have to give it a try. I just put a set of Elixer 11's on it two days ago - so I don't want to go messing with it and wasting a set of strings just yet!

I'll resurrect this thread once I get it done. Might be a month or so - I'm going to do that right before I take it in to my luthier for some fret work and setup stuff.

othomas2 · Post by **othomas2** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:01 pm

With a bit of TLC both the stang and jag trems can be great !!

When a lot of people look at tuning issues, they think tuners or bridge when often it can be a case of, the strings are binding at the nut or bridge. I would suggest using a pencil to graphite the nut and bridge. A ... 5 - 10 min test !!

Basically the trem can be very useable if you pay close attention to the probs at hand. trems on all guitar can become very unstable unless you find that sweet spot !!

These guitar were made for trem use.... don't let it go to waste.

Dice · Post by **Dice** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:10 pm

othomas2 wrote:With a bit of TLC both the stang and jag trems can be great !!

When a lot of people look at tuning issues, they think tuners or bridge when often it can be a case of, the strings are binding at the nut or bridge. I would suggest using a pencil to graphite the nut and bridge. A ... 5 - 10 min test !!

Basically the trem can be very useable if you pay close attention to the probs at hand. trems on all guitar can become very unstable unless you find that sweet spot !!

These guitar were made for trem use.... don't let it go to waste.

I do graphite the hell out of my nut slots, always. Never been a trem guy - my Strats are both decked. The float on this mustang trem isn't consistent - that is my problem with it.

I'm going to consult w/ my luthier on the idea of blocking the trem and see what he thinks (and mention the methods mentioned here - thanks again). I was just going to block my Strat trems, and he convinced me to deck them instead - so I can still have that divebomb. He's always on the ball.

Whatever mods I do, I'll be sure that they are easily reversed. I may not be a trem player, but I respect the guitar enough to make sure that it can go right back to stock in the future.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:03 pm

matocaster wrote:
Dice wrote: I might even flip that tail piece around and snug it all the way down and just run the strings in from the back.
Hey no prob man, just a a quick thought tho, if you flip the bar around vs. going under the bar with the strings you are losing some of the tension needed for the mustang bridge. You may run into a issue of the strings poping out of the saddle or the bridge floating back and fourth too much and messing with your intonation when you play. I have always found it best to go under the bar with the strings, it was more stable for me. But thats just my two cents. Good luck! Let us know how it works for ya!

i agree with this. i flipped the tail piece with one of mine to make it playable while i waited on new springs and it was pretty shit. the break angle isn't the same and it just didn't feel right.

othomas2 · Post by **othomas2** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:57 pm

Just wondering... so uncool & all that, but how did kurt run his stang ? Was it locked or still functioning ?

hotrodperlmutter · Post by **hotrodperlmutter** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:38 am

Kurtsequipment.com wrote:First, the nut had to be cut for heavier strings, then the neck shimmed for a better bridge angle with the cardboard backings from hotel stationery pads, and a Gotoh Tune-O-Matic bridge was installed. Earnie also had to modify the tailpiece to block the vibrato, which Kurt hated. He would remove the two springs for the vibrato bar, add washers to the posts beneath the bridge plate, which locked it down to the plate. Lastly, Earnie would flip the tailpiece around allowing the strings to feed directly through the tailpiece, not under, and the ball ends of the strings would fit in the tailpiece's recesses (41).

Dice · Post by **Dice** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:14 am

Stewart - did you have that tailpiece as low as it would go? Still didn't work out? I'll mess with it some and see what I can figure out.

I'll also see if I can find some good close shots of Kurt's bridge...

Dice · Post by **Dice** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:00 am

I had the Mustang at band practice today.

Tuning stability was... very good.

I made slight adjustments (was a lil' flat) twice in 3 hours.

The wrap under on my tailpiece isn't 100% "tight" against the bar where the strings come through the bar. I pulled them as tight as I could when I strung it, but am assuming that it takes a couple of days for the strings to fully settle?

Anways, I'll spend a couple of weeks with it and see how things go - and then I'll think more about the stop tail mods.

Thanks again everyone.