this thread might turn out to be something that gets sticky'd (as i think about it), but for now i am just wondering a few things. the bronco thread got me thinking about how these shortscale (sometimes qualified as "student") guitars sound in relation to one another. clearly, there's a marked difference between, say, a jaguar and a mustang with the jag being more on the trebly, scissors-beats-paper side of the spectrum while the mustang sounds more of a percussive, rock-beats-scissors-to-a-pulp tone.
but what about the bronco vs. the mustang? musicmaster vs. duo sonic? mix them up. now compare those. for a while, i've pined after a bronco, for example, but then i started thinking was a i being a jerk for wanting a guitar that is essentially a mustang sporting a different trem and without the neck pickup? does a musicmaster sound like a duo's neck pickup? is a duo just a mustang with a tele-esque bridge?
i'm asking these questions because as i rebuild my arsenal of guitars, i'm trying to be as sensible as possible about it. for me, it makes little sense to have, for example, a musicmaster and a bronco if i can get virtually the same sounds (plus more versatility) from a mustang. but if the musicmaster is completely different, that blows that theory out of the water. and since i'm a guy who doesn't really use trem, would getting a duo over a stang give me the same tonal qualities?
it seems like there would be a lot of opinions in all directions on this subject, so imma let you finish.
shortscale TONE ZONE
Moderated By: mods
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dots
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totally. i've wanted a bronco for a loooooong time, too, but their rareness makes them hard to come by reasonably (i'm sure for lefty's it's gotta be ridiculous). . . building one proper is pretty hard, too, since the bridge isn't even made anymore. i'm just wondering how much i should worry about scoring an instrument that i think looks cool/has a mystique about it if i can get something else way cheaper that will sound pretty much the same.
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stewart
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ok, i'll relate my experience: i've owned or own a 76 mustang, a 72 mustang and a 64 duo-sonic that i can use for comparison (my 78 musicmaster didn't have the original pickup when i got it, and i haven't wired up the vintage replacement yet- so i'll skip that).
tonally they're/were all extremely similar, and i imagine if you were using them for recording once they were all at the same volume level and 'in the mix' etc i seriously doubt you could tell the difference. but, i did an A/B/C test one day of the three and noted the following:
76 mustang, ash body, maple fingerboard: the quietest of the three, and more 'woody' sounding. woolier.
72 compstang, alder or poplar body, rosewood fingerboard: the brightest sounding, very piercing when the tone is up full.
64 duo-sonic, alder or poplar body, rosewood fingerboard: the loudest, and the pickups just seem to have a touch more sparkle and life. zing-ier.
anything else i noticed about them probably comes under preference- the 70s ones have chunky neck profiles, the 72 being the biggest (huge!). they're both noticeably heavier compared to the duo, which is light as a feather. the duo also has a wonderful neck, the nitro has worn in really well and is as smooth as a baby's bum. i can see why some people would find it too small for them though ('A' width). the 78 in terms of feel is between the duo and mustangs. quite light (but it'd been hacked up under the guard) but with a marginally smaller neck profile.
but yes, they're all very similar. i compared the bridge pickup on my duo and compstang to gavin's CIJ jag when it was here at bedroom level, and they sounded quite alike. the jag was maybe more similar to the compstang in terms of brightness, but really not a million miles away. again, preference is preference. i think in the end it just comes down to finding one you like, because there are loads of construction variables across the years.
hope that's of some use!
tonally they're/were all extremely similar, and i imagine if you were using them for recording once they were all at the same volume level and 'in the mix' etc i seriously doubt you could tell the difference. but, i did an A/B/C test one day of the three and noted the following:
76 mustang, ash body, maple fingerboard: the quietest of the three, and more 'woody' sounding. woolier.
72 compstang, alder or poplar body, rosewood fingerboard: the brightest sounding, very piercing when the tone is up full.
64 duo-sonic, alder or poplar body, rosewood fingerboard: the loudest, and the pickups just seem to have a touch more sparkle and life. zing-ier.
anything else i noticed about them probably comes under preference- the 70s ones have chunky neck profiles, the 72 being the biggest (huge!). they're both noticeably heavier compared to the duo, which is light as a feather. the duo also has a wonderful neck, the nitro has worn in really well and is as smooth as a baby's bum. i can see why some people would find it too small for them though ('A' width). the 78 in terms of feel is between the duo and mustangs. quite light (but it'd been hacked up under the guard) but with a marginally smaller neck profile.
but yes, they're all very similar. i compared the bridge pickup on my duo and compstang to gavin's CIJ jag when it was here at bedroom level, and they sounded quite alike. the jag was maybe more similar to the compstang in terms of brightness, but really not a million miles away. again, preference is preference. i think in the end it just comes down to finding one you like, because there are loads of construction variables across the years.
hope that's of some use!
Stewart, thanks for the assessment, can you relate on the Bronco?
I pretty much resigned to having to make a left Bronco-ish guitar from scratch, at least with the body, get a lefty Jag/Stang neck, then using a TOM or some other fixed tail bridge. It's something I really want to do but I know it will be a while before I actually do it.dots wrote:totally. i've wanted a bronco for a loooooong time, too, but their rareness makes them hard to come by reasonably (i'm sure for lefty's it's gotta be ridiculous). . . building one proper is pretty hard, too, since the bridge isn't even made anymore. i'm just wondering how much i should worry about scoring an instrument that i think looks cool/has a mystique about it if i can get something else way cheaper that will sound pretty much the same.
euan wrote: I'm running in monoscope right now. I can't read multiple dimensions of meta right now
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stewart
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i've never actually played a bronco, but i wouldn't have any problem buying one sound-wise, as i only ever use the bridge pickup at gigs (occasionally i'll use a neck pickup for recording). it wouldn't matter to me about the lack of neck pickup, really. suppose it's just preference again.Pens wrote:Stewart, thanks for the assessment, can you relate on the Bronco?
i think at the end of the day the pickups on MMs/mustangs/duos/broncos are all essentially the same (though i can't comment on CIJ- only ever played them unplugged), maybe other things like hardware and wood type affect the sound slightly, and maybe they wound the pups to slightly different specs in different decades... i'm not sure. i think once you've played one you kind of know what you're getting in terms of tone from all of them, it just depends if that's the kind of sound you like, etc.
i'm all about the mystique though. m@j@ points and all that...
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Mike
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In my experience a Jaguar isn't actually the brightest of these guitars, the Mustang is. Full whack bridge pickup can sometimes take your face off, but that's what tone controls are for. Either back a lil Treble from your amp or roll the tone back a smidge. I think the larger body the Jaguar has lends a bit more natural low end to proceedings, and you can hear this when you compare the bridge pickup clean sounds on the Jaguar and Mustang videos above. Sustainwise the Jaguar also wins out, probably because of the string anchor point, but who buys these guitars for sustain? I definitely think the Mustang has a more percussive plinky tonality as a result.
Pickups wise my vintage Jaguar has original pickups and as a result they're mellow and low output - which is a great marriage for a Jaguar. It mellows potential spiky treble peaks and gives you lots of sound options. Obviously the Classic Player pickups are much hotter and stronger in the midrange as a result.
As for my Duo Sonic - it just feels and sounds like a Mustang with more solid tuning and more sustain to me, hence why I sold the Mustang - even though I would love to own one again at some point.
Pickups wise my vintage Jaguar has original pickups and as a result they're mellow and low output - which is a great marriage for a Jaguar. It mellows potential spiky treble peaks and gives you lots of sound options. Obviously the Classic Player pickups are much hotter and stronger in the midrange as a result.
As for my Duo Sonic - it just feels and sounds like a Mustang with more solid tuning and more sustain to me, hence why I sold the Mustang - even though I would love to own one again at some point.
this thread is epic late.
all of these guitars were just in a giant fucking guitar pile on my floor at broefest. me and robOG could have sat down and A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H demoed all of them in one 30 minute long video....
we just went to Guitar Center and locked our selves in the quiet room with sloan while he played baratone thru a bassman on 10.
btw sloan is fucking good at guitar. i don't think i have said that enough.
all of these guitars were just in a giant fucking guitar pile on my floor at broefest. me and robOG could have sat down and A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H demoed all of them in one 30 minute long video....
we just went to Guitar Center and locked our selves in the quiet room with sloan while he played baratone thru a bassman on 10.
btw sloan is fucking good at guitar. i don't think i have said that enough.
robroe wrote:this thread is epic late.
all of these guitars were just in a giant fucking guitar pile on my floor at broefest. me and robOG could have sat down and A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H demoed all of them in one 30 minute long video....
we just went to Guitar Center and locked our selves in the quiet room with sloan while he played baratone thru a bassman on 10.
btw sloan is fucking good at guitar. i don't think i have said that enough.
lol.
that baritone was fucking amazin.
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Fran
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I've owned all these guitars excluding a Bronco, but unfortunately nearly every one was already modified to some degree so it invalidates anything i can say.
But i do agree with Mike on the treble of a Jag being less bright than that of a Mustang. Im comparing CIJ there too, i wont compare Vintage to RI due to the ageing of magnets.
Personally i think a lot of all this is so marginal. I love MM necks but one neck pup is useless to me so i would rather go for a Duo. BUT you can get a Mustang easier and cheaper (in the UK) so i've always ended up on that route. Plus you have more tonal options with switching.
Moving away from tone, the Mustang feels a better guitar imo.. more solid and stable (as does a Jaguar) which makes sense when you look at prices. But the Duo seems to resonate better, perhaps because of the simple bridge. I like that simplicity of the whole guitar too, its just no nonsense like a LP Junior- plug in and play.
But i do agree with Mike on the treble of a Jag being less bright than that of a Mustang. Im comparing CIJ there too, i wont compare Vintage to RI due to the ageing of magnets.
Personally i think a lot of all this is so marginal. I love MM necks but one neck pup is useless to me so i would rather go for a Duo. BUT you can get a Mustang easier and cheaper (in the UK) so i've always ended up on that route. Plus you have more tonal options with switching.
Moving away from tone, the Mustang feels a better guitar imo.. more solid and stable (as does a Jaguar) which makes sense when you look at prices. But the Duo seems to resonate better, perhaps because of the simple bridge. I like that simplicity of the whole guitar too, its just no nonsense like a LP Junior- plug in and play.
