wound G intonation question

[stewart]

something occurred to me last night when i was pondering some mildly grating bits on a recording we're doing at the moment, and i realised i've only got a noob-like knowledge in this particular area.

firstly, a few days before doing these recordings i thought i'd put some shiny new strings on my duo-sonic. now, the only full set i had kicking about had a wound G, and i've never used such a thing before. i'll admit it never even occurred to me to check the intonation on that string after i'd put them on. when i got the rough mixes back i noticed one song in particular where i'd recorded the main track with the duo, then overdubbed a distorted track with a different guitar, there was a bit of a clash on either the G or B strings (it's hard to tell which). obviously i carefully tuned both guitars before doing the takes, which makes me think it's more of an intonation thing.

so, the actual question: because the duo-sonic has 3 compensated saddles fitted, it's impossible to just change the bit that the G string sits on without affecting the D string too. does that mean that i'll never be able to get proper intonation with a wound G on this guitar? or does it really make enough difference to be noticeable? fill me in, and don't spare the horses.

[Leisureclub]

It's best to re-intonate your guitar when you change your strings to a different set of gauges or brand or really anything other than a direct replacement of the old set. I'm sure you can get the guitar within the golden 5cent zone. With 3 saddle bridges, you can get close, even if they aren't compensated but the compensation helps get it a little closer.

The fact that you switched to a set with a wound G isn't necessarily the issue, there are probably more variables that are also at play.

[gaybear]

g strings (!) are notorious for being hard/impossible to get exactly in tune.

[SKC Willie]

A wound G will change the intonation a crazy amount if it wasn't before.

Pretty much, you can get the D and G to intonate pretty close but because of the saddles it's going to be tough to get it exact . . . if you even can. You should be able to get it playable though.

[Will]

g strings (!) are notorious for being hard/impossible to get exactly in tune.

I really wish I knew why this is. Even a wound G that is of comparable tension to the rest always seems a bit off.

[stewart]

it's the same gauge of strings apart from the G. here's what the saddles look like-



so you can see the problem if the G needs to be moved to any great degree. i'll have a play about with it today and see what happens. annoying. i'll just go back to a plain G if it doesn't work, it's not the end of the world.

[Dave]

There is generally going to be a difference between 3 saddle intonation and 6 saddle intonation. The discrepency will be between the intonation of the open strings and when the strings are fretted up the board. Given this theory you could probably resolve the issue in the cotext of your song (only) by looking at what it is you are playing and tuning THAT if possible rather than the open strings.

Simplified example: My riff is two bar chords A and B (repeat). So get you tuner and tune up the A bar chord. In the context of your recording this will likely sort things out. Of course if you have lots of open strings in what you play it might be square one again..

There are a few guides and different methods to intonating 3 saddles. Some people er on the side of 'implying intonation' on their Teles. in the same way a string that is out of tune can be made to imply being intune by fretting and using finger vibrato - the difference between the extremes is the implied note.....so the top and bottom of your vibrato is compensated towards an implied in-tune note. Don't think I'm explaining this well. Umm it's like binaural beats yo

Do an google on Tele intonation tech also:

3 saddle bridge tech shiz

[NickS]

There is generally going to be a difference between 3 saddle intonation and 6 saddle intonation.

Trouble is, he has a 3-saddle set compensated for a plain G. With a wound G it needs to slant the other way to be compensated, though a straight one would at least be somewhat better.

[Dave]

There is generally going to be a difference between 3 saddle intonation and 6 saddle intonation.

Trouble is, he has a 3-saddle set compensated for a plain G. With a wound G it needs to slant the other way to be compensated, though a straight one would at least be somewhat better.

Whilst true what I say about tuning it in the context of recording he is doing holds true enough I reckon.

How about flipping the d/G saddle over so it is non-compensated side up (assuming its the kind with carved compensation rather than angled saddles). Actually if it is angled barrels then flipping it will achieve wot you just said anyway: "it needs to slant the other way to be compensated, though a straight one would at least be somewhat better"

[stewart]

right, i played about with the duo-sonic last night and managed to get the G intonating ok with a surprisingly minimal amount of buggering about. i had a look at the coronado while i was at it and it seems the culprit on the recording might have been the B string on that. adjusting the bridge on that guitar is a fucking nightmare, so i tweaked it as best i could without taking the whole bridge off... which would certainly have resulted in the thing being thrown across the room in a fit of rage. i foresaw it.

[broncobuster80]

I worked for a fender dealer ( been so since early 70's) and the tech guys there told me to use 10/11 gua strings and a wound g to get intonation as good as it can get with a 3 saddle deal (that is they said if I didnt want to bend the screws of course). Ive been doing so after they told me this and Ive gotta say it does help, its way easier to get it close.