ShortScale.org

This is a newb question and I apologize in advance.

Background: I just bought my first guitar and am learning to play. Since I didn't know how to play when looking for a guitar, I chose the one I have because it sounded good using the only chords I knew how to make at the time. It's a CV 50s Tele and while it sounds great, I'm running into a huge problem. I have smaller hands and cannot play most chords that use 3 frets. Either my index finger winds up laying damned near sideways on top of the strings or I'm constantly muting strings while using three fingers to form chords. I can't get anywhere close to cleanly playing a C open chord. I have carpal, but I'm not even sure if that's the issue.

Question: Is this something that is eventually corrected through practice or am I better off with a short scale like a CV Duo-Sonic? I'm asking as I read a post on here from a guy who stated that he has pain in his joints from stretching all those years when he realized he was better off with a short scale. Thanks.

Difficult to say. A shortscale might help, but so might lighter strings (if you can get your hands in to the correct position, but just can't find the necessary pressure). It might be an idea to try playing with a capo and play higher up the neck for a while, where the frets are smaller. Just eye-balling it and not having measured with a ruler, the first three frets on my Jag-stang look roughly the same size as the fourth to sixth frets on my Squier '51 (tele neck). Try a capo at the fifth and practise there, see how you get on. Obviously you won't be able to play along with CD's or anything, but it might just give you access to the more difficult chord shapes, and you can move them back down the neck when your hands are better suited to it.

I remember C and F being difficult too.

Be very careful of carpal tunnel. It can be absolutely ruinous.

As somebody with very small hands who's in the process of learning right now as well I'd say push through for right now. As you learn and practice those stretches they will get more and more manageable.

In the long run a shortscale may end up being more comfortable, but you need to stretch those muscles and ligaments in ways they've never stretched before. Until they loosen up and you're more comfortable with chord shapes it's impossible to know which kind of neck you'll prefer.

not necessarily a shortscale, just a skinnier neck. try an ibanez shredder or a strat or mustang. not all shortscales have easier to wrangle necks, and the CV duo is no exception.

I am asked this question almost everyday from students parents and just call ins. I say this; No matter the size of your hands you can play any guitar. I had a 5 year old playing on a duosonic and the 9-13 year old's are all playing strats and strat style guitars. Its going to take time to get your hands to working the way they should.

For a good warm up and to exercise your stretch - start on the 6th string (low e) and play fret 1 with your index finger, then fret 2 with your middle finger, then fret 3 with your ring , then 4 with your pinky ... Again start on the low 'e' then do it on the a string, then d and so on till you finish up on the 1st string (high e). Do this at least twice when you first pick up your guitar

While you are starting out remember to practice to the point where your hand is feeling a bit above a "little tight" and stop. If your hand ever cramps up just stop right there. Your fingers are going to hurt but just press thru that, itll go away with time. If your elbow starts hurting or you get a cramp right below your elbow stop as well, these are warning signs that you are getting a little close to damaging your arm/wrist/hand

Be very careful of carpal tunnel. It can be absolutely ruinous.

that is the #1 harm you can get into but not the only one.

It helped with me.

I'm never getting a full size guitar again. I like chords too much

I agree with what ends said, just work on it, you might as well be amazed with how your hands can stretch

However, if you feel that you can't progress further because of this problem you have, like, really burnt out, I think you should try a shortscale guitar with skinny neck.

Always good to have another Dallas person on the forum. I agree that you need to let your fingers get used to playing. Even electrics can be tough to play starting out. I have a Classic Vibe Duo Sonic and the shorter scale makes a difference, but the neck is thicker than other guitars like your tele I believe. You could go back to the store and try a CV Duo sonic, Jagmaster, or a Jaguar. The CV teles are good guitars so you picked a good guitar to start with. The best thing you can do is try other guitars if you are worried about it.

If you're going to get a shortscale, I would say don't get a CV Duo-Sonic. I played one once and the neck felt too thick, although the scale was kinda nice.

I found that noodeling around and learning riffs and runs on a small guitar very helpful to me. A fun guitar is a strat mini and it has a very short scale or maybe a 22.5" duo. Once I could get something down with the small scale and switched to a full scale my hands and just opened up. I don't think it will make too much of a difference in the long run, but it did not hurt any.

Some excellent advice already given above. I have short fingers and my hands were very tight when I first started. Doing proper exercises will loosen them up. But it does take some time. Be careful not to do too much. Especially at first.

I can add a few items.

#1: Make sure the guitar is set up properly. Proper action height at the nut is especially important when playing first position chords.

#2: If you want an easy way to roughly approximate how a 24" short scale guitar would feel, then place a capo at the first fret of your 25.5" tele. If you wish, tune the guitar down a half-step. This way the guitar will be in standard E tuning with the capo in place at the first fret. Of course, if possible, you want to go to a store and try any short scale guitar you might be considering.

#3: Find a good guitar teacher if you can. You will likely save yourself a lot of time. And will learn good techniques instead of learning wrong techniques that you will eventually need to unlearn to get better.

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm still working things out.

I know that a teacher would be best, but I'm low on funds and actually sold a synth to afford the guitar. I'm reading a couple of books and using a DVD for the time being.

Just to compare, I went to a GC and and played a Duo-Sonic, Dot, and G-400. The Duo-Sonic and G-400 both were much lighter in weight and were easier to make chords with. Still couldn't cleanly make a C chord, but D was a lot easier. I also found out the the radius of the neck for the Tele and Duo-Sonic are exactly the same (9.5"). One odd thing about the G-400 (besides the markedly darker tone) was that it actually hurt to make chords (not stretching, but pressing down on the strings) more than on the Duo-Sonic. I'm guessing that it was because it was shipped with a heavier gauge string and I'm not as callused as I need to be.

The reason I'm asking about this and am considering other guitars is that I have a 30-day window where I can return/exchange the Tele, if I need to. I do have to say, I really like its tone, it sounds great going through effects, and it feels solid. I don't know exactly what gauge the strings are, but they're easy to make chords with.

Taylornutt--nice to see another Dallasite. I'm guessing from your GC pics, you were at the Plano location?

I learned to play guitar on a Mustang after playing bass for about 6 years. When I got my first shortscale I didn't even know there was a difference in scale length from other guitars, I just bought the cheapest guitar I could find with Fender on the headstock. Here I am 20 years later and I play shortscales exclusively. I now find 25.5 guitars uncomfortable to play and my reach on bass has decreased so much that I have to use a Mustang bass too. A lot of it has to do with muscle memory and a 24 inch neck is where my hands feel natural. My problem with short necks these days have been trying to branch out and learn ways to finger chords I don't normally use, only to find that the frets feel too cramped. For now I'm struggling to fret new chords cleanly, at least until my hands will cooperate.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is, muscle memory plays a big part on what you will feel is comfortable or easy to play. If like you say your having a hard time to form chords while learning to play guitar, no shit, that's natural. Your making your hands do something they've never done before. When I started playing guitar I wanted to smash the god damned thing on the floor. You might be psyching yourself out by thinking "I've got small hands".

Seems most guitars are shipped with light strings (0.09s)... that's what you'll get most of the time, and going lighter isn't really recommended

Something to note, the neck radius refers only to the fretboard, not to the neck itself. When we refer to the thickness of the neck, we're referring to the neck profile; if you sawed it along a fret, how thick, wide and rounded it is... this has nothing to do with the radius. With the suggestion that you find a guitar with a thin neck, it was referring to the profile (probably narrow nut width and a shallow back curve).

Play around and see how different necks feel, like you've been doing... but in the end it'll largely come down to practice and getting your hands used to the stretches. As mentioned, your CV Tele is a pretty solid guitar. While a shortscale is technically easier to reach along, the difference is far from dramatic... I barely notice it between my Jag and my Tele and Godin. I think most people wouldn't know there was a scale difference when they picked one up for the first time without seeing a spec sheet.

rodvonbon wrote:You might be psyching yourself out by thinking "I've got small hands".

That is whats going on. Dude, dont just go buy a shortscale because its a little easier to play. I have short fingers myself so I worked around that (with a Waynes World Squier strat - full scale just like your tele).

Do not limit yourself with your playing.. noone can tell you which guitar is for you, matter of fact that is going to be something that you dont even know right now. I know you may have a like in the color/shape dept but as far as a sound, that is something you will have to grow into.

I understand on not being able to afford lessons, if you need a bit of kickstarting I can make you a video on what I show my students in the first few lessons. Im not saying im a b@d@ss on guitar but I'll be glad to share the bit that I know.

How long have you been playing? I teach guitar and most of my students struggle with the C major and F major chords at first because of the spacing and they have problems with muting the string below the notes that they're fretting. It's something that takes practice, and also sometimes just playing around with the angle at which you're fretting the notes. Everyone is different and there is not one definitive way to do it. Some of my students have to be pressing the strings with the side of their finger tips, some have to press straight on in the middle of the finger tip. some have to angle their hand so their fingers aren't muting the strings below them. There's so many different factors to it, but I've never found that one of my students would need a different guitar to be able to play those chords. The only case I've ever had where that is the case was with a 6 year old girl, and her mom, I was teaching both of them and at first the mom wanted to share the same guitar... for obvious reasons a 6 year old girl can not play a full sized acoustic guitar. In your case, unless your hands look like the little hands guy from the burger king commercials:



you shouldn't need to switch to a short scale guitar in order to play those chords. It might help a little bit, but it shouldn't be something that you'd have to do.

cur wrote:I found that noodeling around and learning riffs and runs on a small guitar very helpful to me. A fun guitar is a strat mini and it has a very short scale or maybe a 22.5" duo. Once I could get something down with the small scale and switched to a full scale my hands and just opened up. I don't think it will make too much of a difference in the long run, but it did not hurt any.

I do the exact opposite. I learn everything new on my acoustic. If I cab do it in that beast, it's pie on my electrics.

Just replying to a few questions:

I've been playing for about 2 1/2 weeks. I took lessons for a couple of months when I was 11 or 12, but that was many years ago and I forgot everything except how to play the main riff of a Cars song (not one of the better ones). I switched to synths after that and that's where I've been until now.

I don't have freakishly small hands like this:



But, they're pretty damned small. I'm guessing that the difficulty in stretching to make C/F/B/G chords is partially due to the carpal. I'm often muting a string even on D and Am.

Edit:

I went back to the store and found myself struggling to cleanly play many of the same chords on the Duo-Sonic, so I don't think it's the longer scale. I think I had the impression it was easier to play yesterday because it's so lightweight vs. the 50s Tele (which is heavier than the Thinline and Custom). I've decided to keep the Tele and make it work. I just have to develop proper technique through lots of practice and I'm going to get an instructor as soon as I can afford it.

Thanks to all of you who provided insight and advice. I really appreciate it.