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May be barking up the wrong tree here, as I've not seen many people post about acoustics but.....


I've pretty much convinced my self I need a new acoustic. New band starting up in which I will probably play mostly rhythm guitar mostly on an acoustic, I've given my indie dreadnought to my brother (never really got on with it) Leaving me with my old Framus parlour guitar (luthier I took it to once said it was 50s, the bloke I bought it from said 62 so it is old) now I love this guitar and have written and demoed almost all of the songs on it but I will worry about gigging with it (not that I haven't in the past) plus I'm not going to drill it so sound live will be a pain.

So justification over (I thought I'd recite it for you, as part of the talking my self into doing it process) I'm thinking of getting one of these Martin 000X1AEs

Love 000 bodies, on youtube sounds close enough to my Framus that the songs will sound good but a little fuller which is cool, irrational as it is I like the idea of owning a Martin.

But what else should I try? In the price range i.e. £500, or 800usd or 810 canadian or 580euros.

Big Baby Taylor will probably get a go, although I tend not to dig dreadnoughts. What else?

That's not a bad price for a Martin, or for just a solid top guitar. If the sound is what you're after, and if it feels good (I haven't played a shitty Martin), go for it.

I'm also pretty fond of Seagull guitars, but they may be more expensive and hard to find in the UK.

Have you checked out the Taylor 114 or 214? Better than a Big baby for sure. You might see if you can find a used 300 series, like a Grand Auditorium 314ce. I have a 614ce and a Baby Taylor R and I swear by them. A Cheap T5 would be nice as well.

I like Martins, but every person I have ever seen playing a Martin are constantly retuning after every song. My friend bought a Martin and finally sold it and got a Taylor. The most important thing is to get one you like, but IMO Taylor is making the best acoustics today, but you have to pay a little more usually.

I also like Taylors

I hate Taylors. It may just be that I hate Elixirs and that's what they're set up with from the factory, but either way whenever I play them they're a million times too bright and vivid for my taste compared to just about any other guitar in the shop.

I like Martins as well, but I didn't get one as I got a much better deal on an old pre-fender Guild. Also, it should be noted that the best Martin I've played was one of their guitar center exclusives, the DSR. Last time I looked they went for around $800 on ebay used in good shape with case, but that was right before they discontinued them.

Taylors are going to be out of his price range. The 1 and 2 series are not worth the money as there are better guitars for the money. There are plenty of Takamines and breedloves for example that are less than a 1 or 2 series with a pickup.. And honestly, the ES system in taylors is very finicky. It sounds great at times, but are prone to feedback and such. Also, the other guitars have built in tuners which Taylors lack. IF he is going to be gigging with it, it is something to consider.

I am not a fan of the Martin X series. They can be great guitars, but he build quality is not as consistent as normal Martins and that laminated neck they use just never feesl right to me.

I have had Martins (x series and a DC1E), Taylor (301CE and t-5) Takamine (EAN10c EF340 SCGN) Breedlove (Black Magic, Studio, ASDM, Passort)

Knowing you want a smaller bodied acoustic that will be good for stage use, I would go with: Takamine EF740SGN

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-TAK-EF740SGN


Come with a hardcase, built in tuner, great preamp, cedar top, sapele back and sides and is $700 USD new. I had the bigger dreadnaught version of this same guitar and for the money, it is the best acoustic I ever had. The sating finish and cedar top give them really warm tones and the takamine preamp system is great (as long as you are above the EG series and even those are pretty cool). They play nice, look great, sound great. Can not beat it.

There may be some UK or European brands out there I am not as familiar with though.

And to qualify. I have not played a non acoustic gig in probably 3-4 years. I am very uch used to gigging with acoustic guitar. I love Taylors but the pup system is feeback prone and picky. I love Martins but a real Martin is gonna run you 1500 USD or more. The lesser MArtins are just that.. Lesser. Breedloves are awesome guitars for the money but some people do not get along with them. Also the breedlove preamp is REALLY hot. Sometimes that causes issues. The Takamines are just all around workhorse acoustics that sound great both live and recorded. Add in the case with it, the 700 price new, the tuner, and the great preamp system and you have a winner.

just my 2 cents.

One other comment. If you are not sure of the duration of this project or hwo serious it is, you may consider buying something like an Ibanez acoustic. You have to twea them a bit to get them setup great and they definitely benefit from putting some decent pins and a good saddle/bridge (maybe bone or whatever), but you should be able to find one fairly cheap and because they have a fishman preamp, they sound pretty good plugged in. They do not make the best recording guitars but it sounds like you already have that covered. They will come with preamp and tuner built in.

One good thing about this is that you can buy one of these for now and if the project gets pretty sreious you can always buy a better guitar down the road and keep the cheaper one as a backup/alt tunings guitar. That is exactly what I am doing right now. I sold most of my gear last year due to some injuries. So I bought an Ibanez AW30ECE to get me back up and playing out, and am now about to order another of the Takamine EF guitars. Then I can have the Ibanez set up in open E and the Tak in standard as well as having a backup if I pop a string live.

I got my old 70's (pre Fender) 12-string Guild with a hard case for £500 from Gumtree earlier this year, and I'd definitely recommend something similar.

Absolutely brilliant guitar. By far the most I've ever spent on ANY guitar gear too (only time I've spent over £160ish!), or anything at all. Was a one-off opportunity though, so I went for it.

Alvarez makes a decent guitar too... but I'm not too familiar with their models or pricing.
I have an old Alvarez 12-string that I got for free, and I really like it, despite its faults. I got it for free because it was in someone's garage for years (and we have a good 60C+ temp swing through a year), had no saddle, was missing a couple tuners, someone shot it with a pellet gun, the bridge bracing was lifting, etc. I converted it to a 6-string, cleaned it up, whittled it a new saddle (The bridge saddle space was huge, apparently it had an adjustable saddle originally), and now it plays pretty well.

For a piece of trash, it has pretty decent playability and surprisingly full tone. Given its condition and sound, it's a pretty good advertisement for the brand, imo.

Thanks for the responses so far. I will definitely check out those Taylors and the Takamine. Though I suspect the Taylors may be too fat but certainly worth trying. Breedlove I'll look into but I've never seen one in a shop, same goes for seagull. I the look of the Recording King 000.

I've heard go things about Simon and Patrick but again not seen too many about.


As far as tuners go. I don't really like the idea of it, same goes for EQ and such. In fact one of the reasons I like the Martin is because the pickup junk is inside the sound hole.

Any body know much about acoustic pickups? The Martin uses Fishman Sonitone, is that good? I don't really care about buying an electro, if the best sounding guitar comes prewired that is a bonus but not the be all and end all.

Stuart wrote:I've heard go things about Simon and Patrick but again not seen too many about.

Simon & Patrick are made by the same parent company as Seagull (Godin), and are pretty decent too. Most of the acoustics they make are solid top and tend to be reasonably priced... at least here in Canada where they're made. I haven't really disliked any guitar Ive picked up from their shops, though some are definitely better than others. They're certainly worth checking out.

My brother-in-law has a Simon and Patrick acoustic and I wondered who made them. It did remind me of Seaguls I had played before.

Stuart wrote:Thanks for the responses so far. I will definitely check out those Taylors and the Takamine. Though I suspect the Taylors may be too fat but certainly worth trying. Breedlove I'll look into but I've never seen one in a shop, same goes for seagull. I the look of the Recording King 000.

I've heard go things about Simon and Patrick but again not seen too many about.


As far as tuners go. I don't really like the idea of it, same goes for EQ and such. In fact one of the reasons I like the Martin is because the pickup junk is inside the sound hole.

Any body know much about acoustic pickups? The Martin uses Fishman Sonitone, is that good? I don't really care about buying an electro, if the best sounding guitar comes prewired that is a bonus but not the be all and end all.

As someone who extensively plays acoustics live and who used to also do alot of sound for acoustic acts, I want to caution against not using a preamp/EQ system. If you are going to be gigging, you need to be able to control the volume (some can do this under the soundhole) as well as the tone. Often times feedback/mix issues are best dealt with by adjusting the tone. A notch filter is nice to have as well, but not quite as necessary. Guitars with the soundhole pups (even the high end LR baggs,fishman, etc) rarely sound as good live as a decent acoustic with a properly installed preamp/EQ, etc mainly because you can adjust it on the go. Of course if you have a truly professional soundman monitoring the situation regularly, etc that is another story but how often does that really happen. If you are seriosuly looking at gigging, and unless you plan on having a really nice PA setup with a really solid soundman, you need EQ/preamp controls or alot of the times your guitar is going to sound like mush or be feeding back. If for some reason you are against the installed ones, then by all means use some of the pedal based preamp/eq pedals. LR Baggs makes some great ones. But, they are expensive (as is adding a decent soundhole pup) and are alot harder to adjust on the fly. From any practical point of view, having it on board just makes alot more sense.

I am only harping on this a bit because you could not believe how many really nice acoustics I have heard sound like shit over the years using soundhole pups (and I do not mean the cheap ones, but the LR baggs, fishman, etc type under the saddle systems, etc). They basicly amplify a tone with little control to shape that tone. I have seen some really good guitar players with really nice guitars sound at best mediocre because their vintage Martin with a fishman installed just didn't really do it well, and then some ids umps up on stage with a Ibane and the guitar sounds 10x better.

If I were playing mainly unamplified or recording, I would probably go with a under the saddle/soundhole pup for the occasional time I needed to plug in. If I was gigging, I would want to sound as best as I could and I would want the ability to adust things on the fly as needed or for dynamics in the song..

that said, to each their own. But there is no doubt in my mind that for a gigging guitar, you need to be able to adust to sound levels, room dynamics, different PA systems, etc.

As far as individual pickup systems, most of the LR Baggs and Fishman systems are pretty damned god.

I'm not against using a built in preamp. I just prefer it to be hidden like the Sonitone. It's black plastic panels with sliders and such slotted into the body that I don't like, but I could probably make my peace with them if the sound was right.

What I was saying wasn't so much I don't care about having preamp, it was more I don't mind installing one my self. But again thanks, because like I say its an area I'm pretty unsure of and if I do end up buying something with no electronics I'll probably be back to ask advice about what to put in. In my last band we got away with pointing acoustic instruments at mics old school style, or not micing at all. We mostly played in peoples houses.

As fas as my aspirations for gigging with this new band, we are indie rock kids not real "musicians" and while I'm sure in a way we'd love to hit the big time, we are not about to hit the road playing two sets at night to make it that way. I've been writing my friend has been 'fixing' my songs up because that is how we work. We'll rehearse some more and bring in a few more people. Then probably a house party or two, more writing and rehearsing. Maybe open at a club show and we'll take it from there (I've never got past this stage but I've seen bands playing after 7pm and before 3am, so I know it's possible)...

Obviously I still want the best guitar I can afford to best serve the songs, but it doesn't have to be a 100% pragmatic workhorse or anything.

cool. As far as putting one in yourself, you are better off finding one installed already. They are expensive to buy and are pretty hard to install well. If you do not install them correctly, it will sound bad, feedback, etc.

Anyways, good luck.

DO. NOT. BUY. A. MARTIN.

The ones in that price range are all quiet, strangled, poorly-built shit of the absolute lowest caliber. They will self destruct. I have, in fact, never played one that was even passable in any dimension, let alone good.

Taylor makes the best factory-made guitars available. 100 and 200 series are both good. The GSmini is also extremely nice, but the company is currently backordered 6000 GS minis. So good luck there.

I would honestly go with an Alvarez Masterworks series. I have a mini dread and it's excellent in every way. They are very consistent, sound excellent, and you get all solid woods and good electronics. My little mini-dread was louder and richer for fingerstyle than any other guitar in the store, including an original 1929 Gibson L-0. The other good choice would be an Epiphone Masterbilt if you prefer the Gibson sound.

I would 100% choose an Alvarez with no hesitation. I have given away or sold all my recent acoustics that weren't made by Alvarez.

Will wrote:DO. NOT. BUY. A. MARTIN..

Probably the least equivocal answer I've ever got on a forum. They sound fine on youtube demos and I've heard that the quality issues have been sorted in the new versions with the electronics, having said that this was in a guitar mag and they seem to simply print press releases.

the Alvarez Yairi Masterworks FYM95V, looks awesome but I doubt I'll find one here for the money (or at all). Epiphone Masterbilt might be worth a look. I like the one that kind of looks like a blues king, that probably being my ultimate acoustic

I played some Martin X-series for my friend just yesterday. Even the large dreads were quieter and thinner sounding than the GS mini. They were unresponsive, felt horrible, and the neck/body angle was off. I can say with no qualms whatsoever that they are the worst acoustic guitars made today, excepting some <$100 plywood starters. It's not just that they're bad, it's that they're CONFRONTATIONALLY bad. It's actually as if they tried to make every part of the experience of playing the guitar as unpleasant as possible.

Martin does not make a single quality guitar under $1800, and even at that there are substantially better guitars for far less money.

My drummer has that Martin that you posted. One of our guitarists uses it for acoustic shows. It sounds great! I was really blow away by it when I played it honestly! If you like that I'd say go for it. I am a Taylor fan myself. I have a 414ce which I love, and is the only acoustic I need, I don't even really look at others anymore because I love mine so much! You can definitely find a used 114, 214 or 314 in your price range. They are a similar sound and almost similar feel to that Martin, although a little bit bigger body. They're definitely worth a tryout. As for what Mickie says, I don't have much experience with using the Taylor expression system live so unfortunately I can't really give a counter-opinion on that subject. I only played one show with it plugged in, and that was at a venue with a bad sound system and an amateur sound guy. Other than that show, the only times I've played acoustic shows with it have been in smaller settings and unplugged. It projects well and sounds great in that setting though!

Billy. The expressions system sounds great when dialed in well, but it is just picky. It has to be dialed in and is prone to feedback. That said, Taylors are great playing and sounding acoustics for sure...

The newer x series Martins can be great guitars if you can get along with the laminated neck, it is just the quality control on them is very up and down. They have a tendancy to come apart or for the top and/or bridge to come up sometimes.