First Big Muff

plaidbeer · Post by **plaidbeer** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:52 pm

I've decided to sell my You Dirty Rat as I want something different. I played a Big Muff Pi yesterday and really liked it. The only problem is, the more I read up on Big Muffs, the more confused I get over which one to buy out of the BMP, BMP w/ Tone Wicker, or even the Bass Big Muff (which I've heard is good with guitars). The only one in the stores around here is the BMP, so I can't compare it side-by-side with the others. So, I guess I'm asking if there are any other considerations I should be looking at to decide which one is the best fit?

From what I've parsed so far from here and elsewhere, the Bass Big Muff restores some of the bottom end supposedly lost with the BMP and is closer to a Russian Big Muff (which doesn't mean anything to me at this point). The one with Tone Wicker restores some of the highs, so it's a little more versatile, but some of the remarks here made it sound like it has a harsher, noisier tone? Are these assumptions correct?

lank81 · Post by **lank81** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:06 pm

I've got the MBM Green Muff and have had a Tone Wicker & NYC reissue. For me it really depended on the style you are going for and what amp you're using. For me the TW shined on my Vox. It had the super nice high end muff tone while plugged in to the TB. The BMPi NYC never sounded great to my ears on the Vox. The BMPi on a Fender though nailed that Jack White tone. I think the Green sits a little somewhere in the middle with a lot more bottom end. If you want some great Black Keys sounds the Greenie is great.

plaidbeer · Post by **plaidbeer** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:10 pm

I'm using a BT Jazzmaster (stock neck pickup + Filtertron in the bridge) going into a Vox Pathfinder 15r if that makes any difference. When I was at the GC yesterday, I was trying out the BMP with an Epi Casino going through an Egnater amp.

I've always really liked this particular fuzz tone (older BRMC song). Comes in at the 1:57 mark:

[youtube][/youtube]

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:48 pm

I love big muffs and build many different versions.... my personal preferences are Russian or IC....The Russian is more bass heavey and smooth and the IC has a bit more mids and cuts a little better...... I would throw the NYC versions inbetween these two...

some examples.....
IC= Smashing Pumpkins
NYC= Jack White but uses a Whammy pedal to get it crazy
Russian= Blacks Keys to Kyuss

The sound in the song posted above is more bass heavy so I would recommend a Green Russian.. there is also many things that can be done with the tone stack... If you want to get more in depth PM me.... Plus u knows I got the BT JM as well so I can give some insight on that too...

here is a thread from my last one.....

http://www.shortscale.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39605

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:00 pm

Despite the multitude of versions, clones and expensive boutique muffs available, you can't go far wrong, really (unless you buy a double muff or metal muff). For my tastes, the Little Big Muff, rather than the stock NYC, is the best sounding generic muff ('generic' sounds like I'm damning it with faint praise - I promise I'm not) - I had one for a couple of years, and really liked it: good intro to what a muff can do. The bass muff seems fun (I've got a green muff clone that I love a lot), but the tonewicker version leaves me a little cold. Keep an eye on eBay and pick up a LBM or bass muff for cheap, then get hideously addicted and buy loads of versions.

dezb1 · Post by **dezb1** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:04 pm

my personal preference (as it's the one I have) is the black Russian one cause it has masses of bass response... this + Epiphone Riviera = Jesus and mary chain...

serfx · Post by **serfx** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:05 pm

years ago i did a really shitty NYC vs Black Russian Muff demo.
i should have had the camera on the pedals, but whatever..
[youtube][/youtube]

the related videos will probably help you more, as they look as though they were done by people with talent and knowledge.

*edit*funny i'm currently sitting in that exact same spot as i was in the video.. (oct 2006)

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:09 pm

None of the new muffs do it for me.... Imo the Little Big Muff is the worse muff I have played...the new NYC Muff is nothing special either... if you get a NYC Muff u will want a Rams Head or Triangle..

But Yes, a Muff is a Muff and its hard to go wrong... Its like women, they all have their quirks but there still all Women and I love them all.....just wouldn't marry all of them.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:38 pm

SGJarrod wrote:if you get a NYC Muff u will want a Rams Head or Triangle.

Please be aware, OP, that he means a clone - you could buy a car for what an original would cost you. Black Russians, while not without their charms, aren't a patch on their green cousins, and aren't a good introduction to the world of the muff. They have also never been used by the Jesus and Mary chain - that's a Companion Fuzz, which is a completely different beast.

plaidbeer · Post by **plaidbeer** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:06 pm

I can't afford a vintage BMP or green Russian. I need to stay under $100. So, that's why I was considering the BMP, TW, Bass Big Muff, and now the black Russian.

From what I've been seeing, current BMPs are going for around $50 on used gear sites. About the same with the Tone Wicker. The black Russians are going anywhere around $50-80 and the Green Russians are way out of my range. I did see a current BMP on the local CL, but they wanted $65 which I thought was high for it being used. Offered a straight trade for my Rat and they didn't respond.

sp3k · Post by **sp3k** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:16 pm

the bass big muff is my favorite being made today. Here's a video made by deviever:

laterallateral · Post by **laterallateral** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:24 pm

I was really disappointed in the Tone Wicker Muff. Sure, it affords you a bit more tonal diversity but that's entirely defeated by the effect itself sounding kinda shit.

The Bass BMP is the closest you're going to get to a Green Russian under $100 without building your own.

The Black Russians sound great (they're my personal favourite) but you'll either want to tape the knobs down or change them cause you'll loose your settings just by looking at them wrong. Very frustrating in live and studio situations. This problem is compounded by the fact that the tone sweep on them goes from unusably dark to unusably bright. There's a sweet spot in the middle but it isn't very broad.

The NYC muff is probably a good starting point. It's nothing spectacular but there isn't anything shockingly bad about it either. You can generally overcome it's shortcoming with simple resistor snip mods or by cascading it into other effects.

The Little Big Muff sounds a lot like the NYC in terms of gain quality but tends to be a bit on the treblier side. Not a bad pedal at all.

No opinion on the Micro Muff.

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:27 pm

I'm talking about having a clone built dude...... u can get a killer Muff built for $100..... Mike builds them, I build them and I think Haze was even talking about startng to build them...... you can get whatever Muff you want for $100

Pick your own color too....

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:28 pm

I really think you should strike black russians from your list: as you can probably tell they divide opinions, but I just don't think they're very representative. I reckon you'd be happiest with a bass muff.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:27 pm

laterallateral wrote:I was really disappointed in the Tone Wicker Muff. Sure, it affords you a bit more tonal diversity but that's entirely defeated by the effect itself sounding kinda shit.

I'm sorry to hear that. I also am muffless and was hoping to pick up a w/ Tone Wicker at some point.

laterallateral · Post by **laterallateral** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:58 pm

BacchusPaul wrote:
laterallateral wrote:I was really disappointed in the Tone Wicker Muff. Sure, it affords you a bit more tonal diversity but that's entirely defeated by the effect itself sounding kinda shit.
I'm sorry to hear that. I also am muffless and was hoping to pick up a w/ Tone Wicker at some point.

Don't discount it by my account. It's a personal thing, right? To me, the TW sounded a bit jagged in comparison to the smooth, compressed gain I expect out of a Muff. It might have been the amp and guitar I was using but it sounded bad enough to me to stop considering buying one.

plaidbeer · Post by **plaidbeer** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:06 pm

This isn't meant to insult clone builders, but why would I want to buy a clone if I can get a new Muff for less? Or are you talking about the clones being clones of the vintage Muffs?

At this point, I'm leaning towards a Bass Muff so that I'll have some bottom end. Thanks for the input so far. You guys have really been helpful. But...I just saw a BM reissue on CL for $35. Is having two Muffs at once ever practical?

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:35 pm

I've had five at one stage before. $35 isn't bad at all - if nothing else, the enclosure is lovely. Buy it, try it, if you don't like it, stick a clone's innards in the same enclosure. Many think that the contemporary versions EHX are releasing aren't as good as the vintage ones, but in terms of value for money it's definitely a case of diminishing returns. That said, I'd still love a Earthquaker Hoof ($165) and a Skreddy Ernie or ? Lady (considerably more $).

sp3k · Post by **sp3k** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:35 pm

plaidbeer wrote:This isn't meant to insult clone builders, but why would I want to buy a clone if I can get a new Muff for less? Or are you talking about the clones being clones of the vintage Muffs?

At this point, I'm leaning towards a Bass Muff so that I'll have some bottom end. Thanks for the input so far. You guys have really been helpful. But...I just saw a BM reissue on CL for $35. Is having two Muffs at once ever practical?

He was talking about getting a vintage muff build.

There's no such thing has to much muffs!

You might want to check the behringer muff to, they're suppose to sound very good.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:36 pm

Good maybe, but nothing like a muff.