Short Scale Newbie Question - apologies

robert70 · Post by **robert70** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:42 pm

First let me say I apologize if this has been addressed. I am kinda in a time crunch due to a Return time limit. I promise I have searched for this, but cannot find anything "generic" to answer this VERY NOOB question.

First, does the term "Short Scale" refer to 3/4 size guitars? Next, do Short Scale guitars have the inherent problem of sharps and flats when fretting AFTER being setup? The whole reason for asking is that I bought my son a brand new 3/4 scale guitar (from a well known Guitar Cen uh, Store) on which to learn to play, but it sounds very bad when fretting chords. I took it back to the "Center" and paid $45 to have it setup and restrung with new strings. I tested it out and found that it was still "off". The guitar tech said that all "Short Scale" guitars have that problem to some extent and there was really nothing that could be done. I am almost ready to return it and get a used full scale for him since I want him to hear accurate sounding chords when learning! Anyway, sorry for the rambling and thanks in advance to any and all who answer!

Robert

jumbledupthinking · Post by **jumbledupthinking** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:51 pm

Hi & welcome

I would personally define shortscale guitars as those with a scale length of 24" of lower (not specifically 3/4 length, but they would definitely class as shortscale!). It sounds to me like you have run the gamut of a "big box store" here....any well-made instrument should intonate correctly (this sounds like an intonation problem from what you describe).

I'd advise returning it to the "centre" & getting them to set it up again. Nothing worse or more offputting for a kid starting out than having an instrument that won't tune correctly. Test it out in the store & ensure that they did their job right. If they can't get it to play properly, return it but don't write off shortscales as an option, as this problem is by no means endemic to these guitars. Good luck!

PS - what type of guitar is it?

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:01 pm

I've had six short scales in my life (all 24") and all six of them intonated perfectly. I've been eyeing a Taylor Baby acoustic, 22.75" scale, plays and intonates perfectly. There's no reason why a guitar shouldn't intonate, no matter what the scale.

mickie08 · Post by **mickie08** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:03 pm

If its a cheap guitar it may just not intonate. Have them recheck it but take it back if necessary.

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:16 pm

mickie08 wrote:If its a cheap guitar it may just not intonate. Have them recheck it but take it back if necessary.

Right.

Any scale length will intonate if it was designed/built properly. Fret spacing is specific to the scale length built, and there should be no real difference in bridge design between short and full or long scale instruments (there's no reason why the bridge from a full scale instrument couldn't be used on a short scale and vice versa, other than wood routing, etc endemic to the basic construction of the body)... if properly built it should intonate.

That said, shortscales (and full scales really) benefit from heavier strings to intonate well; the higher tension on the string reduces vibration distance and such improving tuning stability etc.

robert70 · Post by **robert70** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:19 pm

Man, you guys are quick!!! Thanks so much for answering! The guitar is a Laguna LE50. It is 22.75". My son also has a Little Martin LXM acoustic that intonates just fine even with dead strings! (Just checked that out). Oh well, it was "cheap" obviously in both senses of the word. Guess I will return it and get something else. Thanks again everyone!

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:26 pm

I think the tech is just retarded. I saw a picture of the Laguna and it seems like it has intonation screws, therefore you can intonate it well enough if you know what you're doing.

That said, you might want to use slightly thicker strings for it. Like at least 10s.

SGJarrod · Post by **SGJarrod** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:39 pm

honeyiscool wrote:I think the tech is just retarded.

well yeah, we are talking about Guitar Center........ The idea of letting one of their "Techs" touch one of my guitars makers me cringe....

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:46 pm

honeyiscool wrote:I think the tech is just retarded. I saw a picture of the Laguna and it seems like it has intonation screws, therefore you can intonate it well enough if you know what you're doing.

Providing the bridge is correctly placed.
I think othomas pointed out some of the new Squier's were touch and go on intonation. Which is worrying.

Good luck with the Laguna dude, just go through all the online intonation set-ups, its simple. But if it does'nt intonate, flip that mofo on ebay

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:49 pm

I've got that laguna, intonates perfectly. I think Grant has one too. nice little traveler really.

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:02 pm

honeyiscool wrote:I've had six short scales in my life (all 24") and all six of them intonated perfectly. I've been eyeing a Taylor Baby acoustic, 22.75" scale, plays and intonates perfectly. There's no reason why a guitar shouldn't intonate, no matter what the scale.

Get the Baby Taylor or the new GS Mini. You will love it.

robert70 · Post by **robert70** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:19 pm

Just looking for something around $100 - $130 range for beginning 11 year old. He can fret my daughter's Gibson Les Paul, but I don't want to spend THAT kind of money until I know he's gonna stick with it, ya know? They have a Squire Mini Strat and Squire Bullet that I could trade for. Anyone have or tried either of those?

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:23 pm

Have you looked at Rondo? they have a fine selection of very quality instruments, with many shortscale options in that price range.

www.rondomusic.com

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:31 pm

taylornutt wrote:Get the Baby Taylor or the new GS Mini. You will love it.

I'm not much of an acoustic guy, but the Baby Taylor does appeal a lot to me. I love the idea of a bolt-on acoustic.

robert70 wrote:Just looking for something around $100 - $130 range for beginning 11 year old. He can fret my daughter's Gibson Les Paul, but I don't want to spend THAT kind of money until I know he's gonna stick with it, ya know? They have a Squire Mini Strat and Squire Bullet that I could trade for. Anyone have or tried either of those?

Bullet is full scale but smaller body. Excellent little guitars. I'd put a MIM bridge in them, it fits perfectly with the smaller body. Other than pickups, that's the only improvement I think they need (if you ever plan on floating the bridge).

Squier Mini is somewhat decent, but just not as good as a Bullet or an Affinity IMO, which can be good enough to be primary guitars.

endsjustifymeans wrote:Have you looked at Rondo? they have a fine selection of very quality instruments, with many shortscale options in that price range.

www.rondomusic.com

I think the 3/4 Teles are the best choices of the lot.

I just got myself one of those 3/4 SX Strats, and I have to say it's a keeper.

NickS · Post by **NickS** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:33 pm

I've tried a couple of Squier Strat Minis and been pleasantly surprised. I'm sure they intonate better than my Fender 22.75" (3 saddles).

robert70 · Post by **robert70** » Wed May 18, 2011 12:25 am

Ok. Here's the update. The manager tried out my son's guitar and found the same problems I was reporting. He pulled another Laguna off the shelf, same problem. Same guitar tech once again stated he THOUGHT it was a problem with ALL short scales. Luckily, there was another, apparently well respected, guitar tech there who said he didn't agree. If the instrument was made correctly, there should NOT be problems with intonation and fretting! Anyway, I ended up trading for an Ibanez GIO Mikro (GRGM21) and it is AWESOME! Took it to show a friend who is REALLY good and after playing it for about 15 minutes non-stop (he liked it), he said it would even be a guitar he would play on stage! So, once again, thanks to all you guys for the help and the advice!! I and my son could not be more grateful!

P.S. I set this one up by myself (thanks to YouTube) because even after that tech "supposedly" set it up, it was crap! String height was WAY off from one string to the next and the intonation was STILL off! I almost decided to get my money back and go elsewhere, but took it home and tried setting it up myself, to include the neck adjustment! Yes, my friend played it AFTER I set it up!

Thanks Again Everyone!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:01 am

Wow...

I skimmed most of this thread but couldn't find where they refunded your $45 "setup" on a brand new guitar...

robert70 · Post by **robert70** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:15 am

That's because they DIDN'T! They offered to setup the new guitar with new strings (some customer service, huh). But like I said, the new guitar setup was absolute CRAP!! Looking across the strings (from 6th string down to 1st) EVERY string was FAR off from the previous and almost looked stagger stepped!! Plus, it STILL didn't intonate worth a #$%@! So I took it home and did it myself. They will NEVER again touch another of our guitars (and we have 5).

Ankhanu · Post by **Ankhanu** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:18 am

Good on ya for learning to do the setup yourself. I find doing setups kinda fun, oddly

But that just means that my guitars are intonated and have decent action at almost all times, so it's a full win situation. Screw giving someone else way too much cash to do what I can do in about 10 minutes.

If you're going to be doing maintenance work and setups with any frequency, and you don't already have one, invest in a good quality, fast tracking tuner. They make a big difference. Personally I like strobe style tuners for setup work.

Glad the new guitar is working out. Nothing worse than a poorly built instrument, it can suck the fun right out of learning to play. If you have to fight with the instrument, you're not going to stick with it... this is part of what baffles me about the super low quality of a lot of "student" or "learner" instruments; if you want to build and maintain a customer base, make sure that they stick with playing!

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:24 pm

Great thread. Good questions, helpful replies, positive outcome. Thanks, Robert.

Just want to add my agreement, based on many years experience, that the guitar techs at this large chain range from okay to incompetent. I wouldn't recommend anyone go into one of these stores for a set-up...unless you somehow know the individual tech is one of the few who are competent.

One other thing...sometimes they do have very good guitars at good discount prices that play poorly. Just because they need a good set up. So you can get good deals at this chain....

...but then need to get the guitar to your own trusted tech for the set up.

Short Scale Newbie Question - apologies

Short Scale Newbie Question - apologies

Re: Short Scale Newbie Question - apologies

Thanks, Robert