Signature models?

Rushkoff · Post by **Rushkoff** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:11 pm

I was wondering what the general consensus is on Shortscale concerning Artist's signature models? Personally I'm a fan of the Costello Jazzmaster, however I'm not as much of a fan of models such as :

My Chemical Romance bassist Mikey Way recently dropped by the Fender Artist Showroom in Burbank, Calif., to check out his new Squier signature bass. Hereâ€™s the very first look at whatâ€™s coming in 2012 â€¦

LANK

Are certain artists more worthy of their own models? Should an artist's playing style be technically superior to another's to warrant a sig model?

QUESTION MASTER RUSHKOFF

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:22 pm

Pretty sure this debate has come up before.

I don't see anything wrong with an established musician having a professional reproduction of their signature model if it's noteworthy. I also don't see anything wrong with newer bands coming out with Squier and Epiphone signature models that the kids can afford.

I don't believe in superiority of playing style. You can't compare the Ramones to Yngwie Malmsteen. If you've got enough fans with your original music, and inspire enough of them to pick up an instrument themselves, then I say you are good enough for a signature guitar.

Except Chad Kroeger, he can suck a dick.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:30 pm

I think of artist models as falling into six categories:

1. Models like the Eric Clapton Stratocaster are groundbreaking instruments that really push the envelope. These become used by many people, not just the artist for whom the guitar was designed, but by amateur, professional, even touring musicians. This list is honestly pretty thin.

2. Models like the Nick Valensi Riviera, Artist Series James Burton Telecaster, Squier Mascis Jazzmaster are guitars that should have existed in the first place.

3. Models like the Billy Corgan Stratocaster, Sting P-Bass, or Mark Hoppus Jazz Bass have cool unique features that might appeal to you even if you have no interest in the artist him/herself.

4. Models like the Susanna Hoffs 350, Ace Frehley Les Paul, or Avril Lavigne Telecaster are interesting and unique enough that their purchase can be justified to a fan, but not compelling enough to make them truly desirable to non-fans.

5. Models like the John Lennon Casino or some of the more expensive Les Pauls are mainly money makers, basically the same as production instruments with often minor cosmetic changes but a much higher price range for some reason.

6. Some artist models suck so much that the artist himself/herself does not even use them.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:34 pm

p.s. Honestly, dude... that Mikey Way Signature Mustang Bass looks amazing. Silver sparkle w/ black stripes, rosewood fretboard, black headstock? If you saw anyone on this forum with a guitar with exactly the same specs but no sig, you'd congratulate him. Having someone's name on the back of the bass does not make this a bad bass:

So yeah, I judge signature instruments purely on the merits of the instrument itself. And that bass seems to pass the test. It's either between Category 3 or 4, although if priced poorly, it will be a Category 5 artist model, until the MCR fanboys die out and give up on learning bass and in a couple of years, they hit the used market for $200, in which case I will need one. I will probably wipe that headstock free of sig, though. As long as I don't buy it new, MCR didn't make a dime from me.

sonicboom · Post by **sonicboom** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:43 pm

As has been said before (at least by some folks) on this forum, any guitarist who puts their name to a sig is quite simply a major dick. I personally don't give a flying fuck whether it's Elvis Costello or Avril Lavigne, but they're rolling over like the greedy fucks I hoped they weren't: dear guitar company, feed my ego with a sig (aye, J Mascis also) 'cuz I'm important, and oh yeah, fuck the kids - I'm happy to be part of the message that anyone who wants to get my sound needs this (actually pretty stock) sig guitar which costs 3 x what it should.
Every new fucking sig endorsement is a disappointment. For example, Thurston Moore's job is playing guitar, not fucking selling more guitars for fucking Fender.

Freddy V-C · Post by **Freddy V-C** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:56 pm

I generally don't mind either way, as long as the artist's name isn't visible in ENOURMOUS letters. A nice guitar is a nice guitar, and frankly I think that Mikey Way bass is gorgeous-looking, regardless of how terrible MCR are.

honeyiscool · Post by **honeyiscool** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:56 pm

sonicboom wrote:As has been said before (at least by some folks) on this forum, any guitarist who puts their name to a sig is quite simply a major dick. I personally don't give a flying fuck whether it's Elvis Costello or Avril Lavigne, but they're rolling over like the greedy fucks I hoped they weren't: dear guitar company, feed my ego with a sig (aye, J Mascis also) 'cuz I'm important, and oh yeah, fuck the kids - I'm happy to be part of the message that anyone who wants to get my sound needs this (actually pretty stock) sig guitar which costs 3 x what it should.
Every new fucking sig endorsement is a disappointment. For example, Thurston Moore's job is playing guitar, not fucking selling more guitars for fucking Fender.

If an Avril Lavigne guitar costs 3x as much as it should, I want my $93 single humbucker Telecaster, thanks. And my $126 non-Mascis Squier Jazzmaster to go with that, thanks.

Seriously, Mascis has done us all a huge fucking favor by pressuring Fender to release an affordable Jazzmaster that's somewhat vintage accurate and you're calling him a major dick for it? Some people just can't win.

Freddy V-C wrote:I generally don't mind either way, as long as the artist's name isn't visible in ENOURMOUS letters. A nice guitar is a nice guitar, and frankly I think that Mikey Way bass is gorgeous-looking, regardless of how terrible MCR are.

Les Paul's signature is rather large on that guitar and none of us seem to mind.

Mages · Post by **Mages** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:03 am

honeyiscool wrote:
sonicboom wrote:As has been said before (at least by some folks) on this forum, any guitarist who puts their name to a sig is quite simply a major dick. I personally don't give a flying fuck whether it's Elvis Costello or Avril Lavigne, but they're rolling over like the greedy fucks I hoped they weren't: dear guitar company, feed my ego with a sig (aye, J Mascis also) 'cuz I'm important, and oh yeah, fuck the kids - I'm happy to be part of the message that anyone who wants to get my sound needs this (actually pretty stock) sig guitar which costs 3 x what it should.
Every new fucking sig endorsement is a disappointment. For example, Thurston Moore's job is playing guitar, not fucking selling more guitars for fucking Fender.
If an Avril Lavigne guitar costs 3x as much as it should, I want my $93 single humbucker Telecaster, thanks. And my $126 non-Mascis Squier Jazzmaster to go with that, thanks.

Seriously, Mascis has done us all a huge fucking favor by pressuring Fender to release an affordable Jazzmaster that's somewhat vintage accurate and you're calling him a major dick for it? Some people just can't win.

yeah, exactly what I was going to say. mascis specifically asked them to make his guitar inexpensive as possible because he remembers that is why he started playing a jazzmaster in the first place. you're saying if fender approached you to make your signature guitar, you would honestly tell them to fuck off? I find that hard to believe.

Freddy V-C · Post by **Freddy V-C** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:06 am

honeyiscool wrote:
Freddy V-C wrote:I generally don't mind either way, as long as the artist's name isn't visible in ENOURMOUS letters. A nice guitar is a nice guitar, and frankly I think that Mikey Way bass is gorgeous-looking, regardless of how terrible MCR are.
Les Paul's signature is rather large on that guitar and none of us seem to mind.

Very good point!

The only signature I own (or ever have owned) is the Mick Thomson signature BC Rich Warlock I bought from Fran recently. I love this guitar.

othomas2 · Post by **othomas2** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:06 am

honey is cool

taylornutt · Post by **taylornutt** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:53 am

I like Signature models because the players can add features that Fender won't add to the guitars. Fender would never have released a purple sparkle Jazzmaster with a gold pickguard unless J Mascis asked for it. Fender usually plays it so conservative, it's cool to see what tweaks regular players come up with.

JJLipton · Post by **JJLipton** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:24 am

I love the musicman jp models, but unfortunately musicman doesn't do a non signature version of these guitars. In the case of strats, les pauls, etc, i wouldn't buy a signature version due to the increased price.

Billy3000 · Post by **Billy3000** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:16 am

I really don't care if some artist's name is attached to an instrument as long as it's nice. If I like a guitar I'll play it. I'm not particularly a Rush fan, but I wouldn't mind a Geddy Lee Jazz Bass for instance.

That MCR bass doesn't appeal to me. I don't like scumbag silver, and I also don't like black headstocks on fender style guitars and basses. That plus, I'm sure it will end up being the same thing as the regular squier mustang bass but it will most likely cost much more just cause of the finish and the dude's name on it.

damienblair17 · Post by **damienblair17** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:18 am

That Mikey Way bass totally says "Musicmaster Mustang Bass" on it and it has scumbag silver sprakle? I'm tentatively excited.

Rox · Post by **Rox** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:12 am

There's nothing wrong with signature models ..

ekwatts · Post by **ekwatts** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:46 am

To me the whole point of a signature model is for something completely different. The Les Paul could lay claim to being a signature model, and a good one, as it did something new at the time. Even the Ultracure works as a sig, as does the new J. Mascis Jazzmaster, easily the most accessible way into the world of properly equipped offsets for noobs or experienced players.

The very worst signature guitars are those that are basically exactly the same as another production guitar. What's the fucking point? Oh look, it's a Dave Gilmour/Pete Townshend/Eric Clapton/Eric Johnson/Jeff Beck/Mark Knopfler/vanilla Fender Custom Shop stratocaster HOW ORIGINAL. Tell us Mr Knopfler, what is it that sets your strat out from the rest of the crowd? Super jumbo frets and a different body finish and neck shape? FUCK HOLD THE PHONE THAT TOTALLY JUSTIFIES THE MARK UP!

So yeah, some sigs are great, but when you're spending an extra Â£500 on a name on a guitar you could buy/acquire cheaper then you're a douche.

crumpler · Post by **crumpler** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:42 pm

honeyiscool wrote:I think of artist models as falling into six categories:

1. Models like the Eric Clapton Stratocaster are groundbreaking instruments that really push the envelope. These become used by many people, not just the artist for whom the guitar was designed, but by amateur, professional, even touring musicians. This list is honestly pretty thin.

2. Models like the Nick Valensi Riviera, Artist Series James Burton Telecaster, Squier Mascis Jazzmaster are guitars that should have existed in the first place.

3. Models like the Billy Corgan Stratocaster, Sting P-Bass, or Mark Hoppus Jazz Bass have cool unique features that might appeal to you even if you have no interest in the artist him/herself.

4. Models like the Susanna Hoffs 350, Ace Frehley Les Paul, or Avril Lavigne Telecaster are interesting and unique enough that their purchase can be justified to a fan, but not compelling enough to make them truly desirable to non-fans.

5. Models like the John Lennon Casino or some of the more expensive Les Pauls are mainly money makers, basically the same as production instruments with often minor cosmetic changes but a much higher price range for some reason.

6. Some artist models suck so much that the artist himself/herself does not even use them.

Agree 100%

The three signatures I've had have all fallen into category #3 above.
Bought the gutiars because of the features, not because of the name on the headstock.

Though I wouldn't likely buy one marked up by an artist I couldn't appreciate at all (the Gibson Jonas Bros. sig comes to mind).

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:57 pm

Besides a Les Paul, I don't think I've ever owned a signature model. Closest I've come was owning a DOD YJM308 Yngwie Malmsteen signature overdrive pedal, which was just a vintage 250 overdrive reissue.

That said, I might go for one if it fell into Honey's categories 2 or 3.

BillClay · Post by **BillClay** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:14 pm

Everyone knows the best signature model ever made is the squier Venus.

ekwatts · Post by **ekwatts** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:33 pm

BillClay wrote:Everyone knows the best signature model ever made is the squier Venus.

Bound to get hated the fuck on for this, but yeah, basically. It did everything a signature should do, which is come in at low-to-mid price range* and was markedly different to the vast majority of other Fender/Squier guitars out there. I've never once felt arsed about the Jag-Stang, but I would play the fuckety shit out of a Venus.

* yeah, it wasn't that cheap, but we're living in an age where the average price of a decent guitar has dropped to pretty silly low levels, so it was fairly accessible at the time, even if it was two whole years of delivering newspapers and saving like a scrooge.