How long does it take for clear coat to Cure?

Awstin · Post by **Awstin** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:44 pm

HNB painted it last week and every time i sit it somewhere for a long amount of time it gets marks in the clear coat. I now have it sitting on toys blacks in the routs in my closet so it doesn't get ruined. How long will it be so that i can put it on a stand or elsewhere so that it wont mark it?

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:52 pm

Nitro finished guitars usually need to set for like 3-5 weeks before you can buff/wetsand them. After that you need to take extra care for like another month or two usually while they gas off. It doesn't cure for several years.

Awstin · Post by **Awstin** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:21 pm

So I can't put it on a stand or have it sit somewhere for a long amount of time for years??

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Hang it up by the neck.

HNB · Post by **HNB** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:37 pm

What I was doing while letting it dry was I took a metal wire coat hanger and cut it so it had two metal wire pieces that I could bend at a 90 degree angle and feed through the neck holes and then bend the wire up slightly so it could hang without falling off the coat hanger. I wonder if the heat it experienced during shipping effected it or maybe different humidity there? I had it laying on a soft towel at my place and no problems like that at all. Must just be adjusting to the new environment.

Awstin · Post by **Awstin** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:50 pm

Yeah it sucks. :/ hopefully it will be ok in a few weeks or so.

paul_ · Post by **paul_** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:22 pm

Punkacc9 wrote:So I can't put it on a stand or have it sit somewhere for a long amount of time for years??

Oh no, my bad... I didn't explain that well. The "years" comment just meant the time it will take to fully cure. Obviously Gibsons and AVRIs aren't made 10 years in advance

Unlike polyurethane, nitrocelluose doesn't cure/dry out through and through for years, and then when it does it dries in a porous/brittle manner that doesn't seal in the body wood, so any shifts in the wood (like from temperature/humidity) start checking/crackling the clearcoat. It's ALWAYS more fragile than poly, for the guitar's entire life. That's why pre-CBS Fenders were usually beat to shit within their first couple decades but early '80s Strats still look new.
It is actually a bit risky using any old guitar stand with nitro though, particularly the types with rubber surgical tubing on the neck/body forks... that stuff can eat lacquer. Leather is also bad for curing nitro, so keep any straps/couches that are leather from touching it long-term.

HNB is also right that you should allow the body to adjust to new environments. The best way to do this is actually leaving it packed at room temperature for a couple hours before bustin it out (when it's a full guitar you should still do this when transporting it to radically different climates by leaving it in the case a little while). This is if you want it to be pristine christine for as long as possible though, and most typically accounts for someone having bought an expensive American instrument with a nitro finish, babying it. Modern Fender/Gibson nitro is more resilient due to having polymers that stabilize it or something like that.

I take it you've already had it out naked in your house, so forget about it, it's not as fragile as the precautionary warnings make it sound. If you want a more resilient clearcoat, Stewmac's is good. Reranch's is proper old-school because some people want their guitars to age quickly.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:43 am

HNB wrote:What I was doing while letting it dry was I took a metal wire coat hanger and cut it so it had two metal wire pieces that I could bend at a 90 degree angle and ....

Yeah if there's not a neck on it, or you dont have a wall hanger the coat hanger (and towel rack in my case) works a treat.

HNB · Post by **HNB** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:52 am

Ends up looking like this with a coat hanger. Save from imprints and stuff.

DSC05622 by Hentai No Baka, on Flickr

Joey · Post by **Joey** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:35 am

Lacquer is a loaded word. You can have acrylic lacquer, nitrocellulose lacquer.... even with nitrocellulose lacquer you have different grades. Furniture grade.... more resilient, won't check or yellow. Instrument grade... yellows, checks

I used to try to save money by using acrylic lacquer or just "lacquer" spray cans. But it always bit me in the ass, the finishes never really cured. I've made the mistake of laying guitars down on a covered bench top.... it dimpled the finish. Left a guitar of a wire closet shelf.... ate that finish up. Knocked a guitar off the stand and huge quarter size chunks would chip off.

I don't fuck around any more it cost me more money to redo a halfass lacquer finish then it does to just get true instrument grade lacquer. I mix all my colors now, it saves me money by cutting out ReRanch. I use nitrocellulose lacquer sealer / primer (same sealer with white pigment added) / nitrocellulose lacquer gloss (add my color pigment) / gloss.

If you have a true nitrocellulose lacquer finish and no acrylic mixed in there... it will cure within 30 days (practical hardness). You can usually sniff the guitar or press your fingernail into a guitar finish to determine if it's cured.

HNB · Post by **HNB** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:45 am

I use Deft Gloss Lacquer. A lot of people use them for finishing guitars. I don't half ass my finishes.

I spend a lot of time with them actually and have had people give many kind words about the bodies I have worked on.

Component CAS Number Weight % Reporting Ranges
ACETONE 67-64-1 10-30
2-BUTANONE (MEK) 78-93-3 10-30
PROPANE 74-98-6 10-30
ISOPROPANOL ANHYDROUS 67-63-0 5-10
METHYL ISOBUTYL KETONE 108-10-1 5-10
SOLVENT NAPHTHA, LIGHT ALIPHATIC 64742-89-8 3-7
ETHYL 3-ETHOXYPROPIONATE 763-69-9 1-5
XYLENE 1330-20-7 1-5
NITROCELLULOSE 9004-70-0 1-5
2-BUTOXYETHANOL 111-76-2 1-5
ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 0.5-1.5

MSDS Info

jamba72 · Post by **jamba72** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:09 am

for clear coats I mostly use high quality, fast-drying acrylic can lacquer..handdry after 15 minutes or ready for the next layer after 12 hours..after that another 2-3 layers.

Awstin · Post by **Awstin** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:47 am

So is it just bad to use nitro on guitars compared to Polly? You have used the same way of painting for your other guitars? How long did you let the others sit drying and have you ever had any problems like this with them?

HNB · Post by **HNB** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:28 pm

Punkacc9 wrote:So is it just bad to use nitro on guitars compared to Polly? You have used the same way of painting for your other guitars? How long did you let the others sit drying and have you ever had any problems like this with them?

Nitro lacquer is what the higher end guitars use. Polly is normally used on the lower end/more affordable guitars.

I only had the problem you have had one time and it was my first ever paint job and I only let it dry a day which was way too short. My other bodies have been totally fine. This one was too before I shipped it. On my flicker you see it laying on a towel. It was on a towel for almost two days and didn't get a mark or indent. I think it is temp/humidity change adjustment. Just let her hang a bit longer and it should be totally cool.

Awstin · Post by **Awstin** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:45 pm

Alright. Sounds good(:

Joey · Post by **Joey** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:00 pm

I've used Deft sealer and gloss before, it's nice cause it comes in a can ready to spray and is easy to find locally at Lowes or Ace. I've been tempted to switch over to poly because the sky is the limit when it comes to colors. What brand of color have you had luck with HNB?

Awstin · Post by **Awstin** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:30 pm

Joey wrote:I've used Deft sealer and gloss before, it's nice cause it comes in a can ready to spray and is easy to find locally at Lowes or Ace. I've been tempted to switch over to poly because the sky is the limit when it comes to colors. What brand of color have you had luck with HNB?

Does Deft harden good?

h8mtv · Post by **h8mtv** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:47 pm

Duracoat.

HNB · Post by **HNB** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:09 am

Joey wrote:I've used Deft sealer and gloss before, it's nice cause it comes in a can ready to spray and is easy to find locally at Lowes or Ace. I've been tempted to switch over to poly because the sky is the limit when it comes to colors. What brand of color have you had luck with HNB?

I have used duplicolor perfect match paint. You can get it at Autozone or similar places. It is normaly acrylic lacquer. Some cans are acrylic enamel. It dries fast and has nice color options. I stick to Deft for the clear coat because I have had really good finishes vs what I used on my first body. (That stuff dried with pin holes all over the finish.)

Narco Martenot · Post by **Narco Martenot** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:57 pm

Paint curing in general is very tricky to gauge. There is no universal answer for this. It is totally dependant on how the paint was applied (thin or thick coats?), the temperature; and most importantly, the humidity level where it is drying. This goes for any type of paint or adhesive. I've given up on lacquers in favour of a high-quality polyurethane because I have no patience to wait weeks or even months for something to properly dry. I also think the old lacquer method is outdated, and is much more work with very little to no payoff (at least for my purposes -- I rarely build things that I want to age these days).