ShortScale.org

Hello, n00b here, hope things are wonderful with everyone.

I bought teh Kurtz mustang recently, with a plan to 'de-cobain' it, cos well, it's a Mustang available left handed, which seemed like a good opportunity to me given that as a left hander we're lucky to get anything that isnt a strat/tele in black. Or sunburst.

I took it to a Denmark St luthier to do away with the humbucker and the tort guard, and install a Fralin SP43 in the neck. I was also forced to have him remove the TOM bridge and install the regular mustang bridge and thimbles.

I got the guitar back, it looked good - apart from a gouge in the new guard by the truss rod access, and the switch holes being a bit sloppy/wonky/big. I thought it was a bit weird I had to actually ask for the JB bucker he removed, then for the original and template pickguard I gave him, and the box for the Fralin. I had to go back another day to get the stock TOM bridge, and got the vibe he had better things to do than deal with me and hurriedly gave me what turned out to be the wrong TOM bridge, without posts and thumbscews. I didn't haggle this guy or even ask the price until all the work was complete. Anyways...

I got home, and the bridge pickup sounded rich and lovely, but the bridge (which was just the stock neck pickup, as a temporary measure) sounded p*ss weak. I got a SD twangbanger and put it in myself, just soldering it where he had soldered the bridge pickup. When I had it all open, I noticed he'd just bunched up the (copious) excess cloth covered wire from the Fralin and just jammed it in the cavity under the upper switch. Is that normal?

Anyhoo, when I went to put the guard back in, what with all the excess wire, and the shallower bridge pup cavity on these KC stangs, two other solder connections broke. I found the stock Mustang wiring diagram on line, and when I went to reconnect the loose wires, I noticed the wiring in my stang seemed to have very little to do with the diagram. I don't know if the luthier got confused by the guitar being a lefty, with it's rubbish reverse pots and everything being a mirror image... anyways, between the diagram and playing detective with solder joints, I got it wired up and making noise again.

BUT...

now the Fralin in the neck sounds like tinny ass, and the tone control seems to act more like a volume (for the Fralin only). I don't know if the Fralin just sounded fat before compared to a poorly wired pickup in the bridge, before the SD went in, or if something else is messed up now making the Fralin sound bad. I don't really care much for the bridge position, but my stock 92/93 MIJ 69RI stang sounds so much more beautiful! so:

1. Does it matter that one neither of my pups are reverse wound now? does reverse winding just change the polarity? If so, what's the point on the mustang when there is a phase switch for each pickup? ANY CLUE WHAT HAS GONE WRONG?????

2. Was the luthier naughty?

3. My 92/93 Fuji Genn stang -- is it any more desirable than later reissues? Was gonna sell it, but thinking as I've owned it for 20 years now, is it gonna start appreciating in value soon? I'm sure I'll regret it if I let her go.

4. I heard the Cobain mustang is now discontinued. If I bought another to just keep totally mint, is this model likely to appreciate? and if so, would a lefty be more or less valuable? I know guitars are meant to be played, but I've got tons of players. I figured guitars are more fun than ISAs... but maybe a vintage stang or other is a better idea for investment. At least then I won't feel I can't play it.

5. What other pickup recommendations for neck? I like clean to mildly overdriven, strummed without pick for the most part. I'm thinking I should just get another set of the RI stock pickups - they sound sweet in my older stang. It's so hard choosing pickups and not exactly easy to A-B them against each other.

I'm thinking all these questions might not exactly endear me to other members. Sorry. The first question is the most important! I just want this stang sounding as good as it feels. All advice very, very welcome. All I know about forum etiquette I've gleaned from reading these boards recently. If I do anything wrong, please let me know. I didn't wanna be the n00b posting 5 different topics within days of joining up. Thanks for reading. I come in peace.

kind regards, B

x

Ouch. First: I wouldn't recommend going back to that tech from what you've said there.

Second: there are people on here who know heck of a lot more than I do about such things, but if a pickup sounds weak/tinny when in combination (e.g. bridge+neck) it might be out of phase. Try swapping the 'hot' and ground wires and see if it sounds any better.

If the pickup sounds like cack on its own, it might take a bit more trial-and-error or detective work to see which wire(s) should be connected to earth or the switches/pots.

Do you have pics of the wiring? The good news is, a fix IS doable. Annoying and fiddly perhaps, but not impossible. Welcome to Shortscale!

firstly cheers badger for your swift reply!

It's not just sounding thin and tinny when with the other pickup (even then, switching one switch the opposite way ought to remedy that, right?), it's also when the neck pickup is in isolation... but it does sound a bit like a phase issue what with the missing low end. I'll just have to (or get someone to) rewire everything from scratch

Yeah I was a little bit disappointed with the luthier to be honest. Especially as I'm sure he has a very good rep - which I'm not here to trash (though I will happily say that Guitar Amp and Keyboard centre in Brighton are jokers... And that Wunjo's are bloody lovely) I'll try and get some pics of the wiring, but tbh if I'm gonna de-string her etc again I may as well get the wiring done while she's opened up. I did take some pics of the wiring so I remembered where to solder the pickup, but I don't think the rest of the wiring is clear enough in the picture.

peace

I'm sure these are useless, but just in case:





here she is. filthy bitch:



and here are the fender branch of the family:



that stock tele custom sounds so brilliant to my ears, even though people slate the mex reissue WRHB and stock pots.

Nothing to do with your questions, but am curious as to how you play, I mean, all your other guitars look like stock righty guitars, even the strap buttons have not moved, but your Cobain is strung righty, but with a lefty strap button.
Do you play with the guitars held lefty but strung righty a la Kerbdog?

As in Irish band Kerbdog?? I vaguely remember them!

I play strung right handed but upside down - like the guy from super furry animals and albert collins? there were always guitars in the house when I was little, and easier to find and sell fun guitars if they're righty. I don't currently play guitar in any bands - I do record a lot though, and strapless on the knee is fine for me. I'm loathe to drill holes in them 'less i need to - Have a neck plate mount for other stang. blonde tele not mine and the p bass lyte I'm plannig to get rid of!

word

Nice one. And yeah Irish Kerbdog, used to love them - and he played upside down as it were strung righty

I never saw him play! but remember having one of their singles when I was 12 or 13 - I don't remember the song off the top of my head, but remember the B side was a Pixies cover... which could well be why I bought it, I can't remember!

peace bro

the excess wire thing is just him being a lazy bastard or utterly noobish. no excuse for that.

if the fralin pickup is very noticeably quieter and tinny it's probably just broken. if the tone is acting as volume and it's very quier then it is most definitely broken. this is the same issue that happened on my rickenbacker.

if both pickups together sounds really quiet and nasally but okay separately then it's a phase issue. different brands have different coloured wires and windings etc. a pickup cannot be out of phase on it's own though.

if you're looking at replacement pickups and enjoy clean to mid-gains for the neck, i would look at alnico 3 magnets of some description.

edit: also, you should just say, sorry mate, your work is shit, and get him to at least fix the problem or replace the pickup. you probably paid a lot on denmark street.

George wrote:the excess wire thing is just him being a lazy bastard or utterly noobish. no excuse for that.

I generally don't like to clip my pup wires and will bunch them up. If you like swapping them around it is nice to have enough there. Of course it is easy to splice on a bit of length if needed in a swap out situation, but still I don't mind leaving them long. But I am a lazy bastard n0ob, so there is that.

Hi George,

thanks for your reply. I'm pretty sure the Fralin was sounding sweet when it was first installed - in fact the pickup that was in the bridge before i put the sd twangbanger in (stock kc stang neck pup) seemed to have the same issue I'm getting with the fralin now. at the time i just thoughht the new pup was wayyy hotter in output.

I'm clued up with phase from a recording perspective, but not clued up about wiring. I thought perhaps if the output of the fralin was going to 2 or more points, that one of the switches or wiring could be flipping the phase of one of the signals internally, but then I guess if that was the case the 2 signals would cancel down to silence - as I said -I'm clueless with electronics, my soldering changing just the bridge pup was shameful


I mean, what can go wrong in a pick up? I thought it would just work, or it wouldn't.

The volume of the fralin - in fact the whole guitar - is quieter than the tele custom and the stock 93 mustang too. I'm pretty sure this fralin is slightly overwound too, which i gathered would yield a slightly hotter output?

I really appreciate the suggestions with pickup magnets! I'd rather ask users on here than reading what companies write about their own pickups - cos to me it doesn't help a great deal. I mean, the twangbanger doesn't really make the mustang sound ANYTHING like a tele - not that I believed it would! I just hoped it would contrast nice with the SP43.

Yeah I think the luthier guy took me for a bit of a mug, or a noob. I don't want to feel I have to list my musical achievements to get an A1 job! I dunno if you can see (or really care, ha) the holes he cut for the switches, and the big gouge! It doesn't bother me much, but that was £50 for a guard and £50 for the other work.

Anyhoo... I know I prattle on a bit! Sorry and friendly vibes, B.

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I get what you're saying cur, and agree it's good to leave some excess - considerate... forward thinking... but the mustang cavity is pretty tiny, and the wire from that pickup is really thick and stiff, and coated in that waxed cloth too! he could have clipped just a bit off. all that wire is about the same size as the whole switch housing!

word. B

some excess is good but that's too much i think. yeah it's fine if you have big routs with no thin routs and channels to snake through but mustangs are bit of a pain.

regarding the pickup , i overlooked that you'd changed them round and stuff. are you doubly sure all the contacts and wiring are correct and not loose? it could be that you damaged it when forcing it about i suppose, in which case you may not be successful.

mate however it came back from the luthier was all wrong, i think. i only noticed cos 2 solder joints came undone trying to close her up again (amazingly not the 2 that I did) and when I went to reattach based on a wiring schematic, nothing looked the same. I don't know what he did, or if the cobain mustang is wired different to a regular mustang reissue... It should just be a mirror image for a lefty guitar, right? even her pots work the opposite way. I can't remember now how I resoldered things - I would have tried to be logical about it - but I'm quite clueless with electronics!

Assuming I'm allowed to ask :

Anyone in London who would re-do the wiring for a nice cheap price? I'll give you a cool present of some description too! Also wanted a guard cut for another guitar.

best vibes, B

OH WOW
I knew Teh Kurdtz would look fucking RAD with a mint pickguard!!!!

Hahahaha cymbaline! me too! I think the subtle green in the guard brings out the subtle green in the sonic blue. It makes my eyes feel all 60s and washed with green. the cream strat bits are a big turn on too - in fact I'm in a permanent state of arousal whilst looking at this as I play. Luckily 'teh kurdtz' 'stang weighs a ton so it keeps everything in my undergarments under control. wayyyy heavier than my 69 RI.

thanks for noticing her beauty!

I've only skimmed this thread but don't feel like you can't say who did the work. You paid somebody good money to do a professional job and the result looks like it was done by an amateur. I'd be naming and shaming.

On the other hand, the mint and two single coils looks class. It even doesn't look bad with the pole pieces showing - which typically looks terrible on a Mustang. One thing that might interest you is that it's now easy to pick up cream coloured Mustang knobs for cheap (a little less than £1/€1 each though shipping might be a bit high depending on where you get them). They're sometimes called 'eagle' knobs (no idea why), or just listed under 'fluted'.

Thanks for your reply James.

I did already find a couple of places with cream fluted knobs, but touted as MXR style. Are they the right size? I meant to check. Are Mustang knobs the same as the small knobs on a Jazz bass or the big ones?

As for exposed pole pieces, I usually dislike them on Mustangs, however I didn't want aesthetics to dictate my pickup choice too much. I thought I'd try different pickups out til I find the divine combination, and then go at some closed covers with a Dremel if need be! Is that what people mean by 'RobRoe'-ing pickups?

All that said, the pseudo-Strat look has really grown on me! I was originally gonna go black knobs and covers, but I'm liking the mint/cream/sonic blue vibe... Looks classic to me!

If only the 3 way slider switches came in something other than bright white!

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As for the luthier, I did leave his workshop happy, and told him I was happy, so I'd feel a bit of a bastard naming him on here when I've not even told him my issues.

The sloppy switch holes and scratch on the pickguard (neither of which i noticed til I got home) didn't really bother me too much. The wiring did. The thing that actually pissed me off though was having to ask for everything that he took off the guitar / was in the case piece by piece, and then when I went back for the TOM bridge I got a faintly shitty vibe from him ( to be fair up to that point he had been quite charming) like it was completely pointless wanting to keep the stock parts of my cruddy guitar, or that he had better things to do (which he probably did!). He gave me the wrong bridge, and no posts or thumbscrews! I've given up now.

I wanna point out that I didn't haggle with him, didn't phone him after my initial call to book the guitar in, didn't ask for a quote etc.

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I've really got to get this exclamation mark habit under control. I read like a teenage girl. Sorry.

Can we please have more gratuitous Pron of this guitar?
I can't get over how sic it looks, this is the exact color scheme I want!!

Cymbaline wrote:Can we please have more gratuitous Pron of this guitar?
I can't get over how sic it looks, this is the exact color scheme I want!!

Oh I just posted this in the early 90s Mustang thread - it's a bit fuzzy but she's in it! I'm housebound so if it's nice tomorrow maybe I'll take some snaps in the sun

Thanks for the appreciation bro

The white on white looks really nice, now I'm considering that for my project guitar.

My 'stang is white-on-white too, but the mint-on-blue does indeed look great. No objections to the exposed polepieces from me either.