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angled vs. straight
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:35 pm
by dots
i've had opportunity to play through a straight jcm 900 1960 cab on several occasions. at each one, i was underwhelmed at the tone in comparison to my trust 1960A. it was my understanding, however, that the only difference was in that angle on the top face. is there something else i'm missing? cos the straight cabs have all been muddier and less cutting.
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:47 pm
by Doog
I always presumed it was just that- the top speakers are blasting more towards ear level so your topend bite doesn't just end up being soaked up by yer knees.
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:12 pm
by More Cowbell
Agreed with doog, I think you just hear the tone better with a slanted case, they should have the same speakers and not sound diff when close mic'd.
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:16 pm
by Aug
the angle of the dangle is equally proportionate to the heat of the meat.
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:24 pm
by theshadowofseattle
Aug wrote:the angle of the dangle is equally proportionate to the heat of the meat.
ahahhahah
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:10 am
by dots
More Cowbell wrote:Agreed with doog, I think you just hear the tone better with a slanted case, they should have the same speakers and not sound diff when close mic'd.
see, i thought so, too, but that totally didn't bear out when we were in the studio a couple weeks ago. it was way different tone. normally, i woulda just said that it had a problem or the speakers were blown, but i remember the one i used at a lock-out a couple years back was always missing something, too. i guess it could just be another weird coincidence.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:44 am
by More Cowbell
dots wrote:More Cowbell wrote:Agreed with doog, I think you just hear the tone better with a slanted case, they should have the same speakers and not sound diff when close mic'd.
see, i thought so, too, but that totally didn't bear out when we were in the studio a couple weeks ago. it was way different tone. normally, i woulda just said that it had a problem or the speakers were blown, but i remember the one i used at a lock-out a couple years back was always missing something, too. i guess it could just be another weird coincidence.
Email Marshall, maybe they'll shed some light on this problem? maybe the base cab is a bassier cab or summit?
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:33 am
by Sloan
Perhaps the speakers weren't broken in?
There's tons of varibles really. blah blah blaaaah.
shit, cannibal corpse just started playing in my ears. dammit.
MEEEEAATHOOOOK SOOOODOOOMMMYYYYYYYYYYYY
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:32 am
by Mike
Straight cabs are more bassy because the resonant chambers for the four speakers are symmetrical and so you can more constructive interference at lower frequencies and a better low frequency projection. Some metal guys absolutely love them for this reason.
Angled cabs sound more like a bassier version of 2 2x12" cabinets (which I think sound very balanced) and the two angled speakers definitely help you hear yourself (and the audience hear you unless you're on a high stage/mic'd up) as they project the sound upwards, however this upward projection means a loss of bass and an increased emphasis on the mids and high-mids. I like this effect, it's cutting and helps you stand out during the mix. The speakers don't sympathetically enhance the bass response as much as in a base cab. Like it matters though - a 4x12" pushes a lot of air and generates a good bass response anyway.
Were both cabs Marshall Stock (G12T-75s)? Because if you were playing a 1960BV cab (Vintage30s) you'd definitely notice a darker tone.
JCM800 1960A
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:43 am
by Sloan
Sweet. makes perfect sense.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:07 pm
by dots
Sloan wrote:Sweet. makes perfect sense.
+1
thanks, mike. as far as i know, both straight cabs were stock, through & through. when the first one i played through sounded like that, i assumed it was a blown speaker or some mod to get it to sound that way. but after hearing the second one sound decidedly similar, it seemed an unlikely coincidence.
i've got two 4x12's (my 1960a and the mod'd fender fm 412 that sounds like a 1960a), and they're both angled and sound incredible compared to the straight mess i was jamming. i've also got the 2 pair of speakers from the fm 412 that i want to convert into two 2x12 cabs. i want my garage to be a wall of options when folks come over to jam.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:10 pm
by Mike
Cabinets 4 Life.
I've played through a wide variety of 4x12"'s and the worst was a Mode4 cab. God knows what speakers were in it but I had to dial almost all the treble out of my head to tame the brittle high end. Complete junk.
Just be careful with impedance matching on the toob amps and you'll always be a happy man.
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:27 am
by paul_
Doog wrote:I always presumed it was just that- the top speakers are blasting more towards ear level so your topend bite doesn't just end up being soaked up by yer knees.
yep, this is one of the few things Jim Marshall had to do with the design of any of his amps- he phrases it in very similar language to that, as well, "...so you're not playing to your legs." Mike gave a better technical explanation relating to the cab's actual construction though.
(sigh) drummers...
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:25 am
by dots
Mike wrote:Just be careful with impedance matching on the toob amps and you'll always be a happy man.
of course. i know who to double-check with before i warm up the soldering iron.
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:17 am
by Mike
Any time.