ShortScale.org

as i said before, I'm looking forward to try these alot especially that tele thinline. I think a trip to PMT on Sunday is in order

im not too interested in any of that stuff. Just another ... series. I think I wouldn't buy one. interesting though that 7ender now offers 7ender labeld guitars from China at a budget. They did that for years with amps, but not with guitars.

Don't understand the hate.

Look at how daft all these are (Tele aside). We've been asking for this for years from Fender.

luv it

I'm betting that the 'branding a chinese-made instrument as Fender' won't last. Because of the corksniffers will scream bloody murder and the brand will lose value blah blah blah.

None of this is new for Fender.

Fender have ALWAYS been about making affordable instruments for every day people. You must be confusing them with Gibson.

From day 1 Stratocasters and Telecasters were designed to be built at low cost by non-luthier labour. Things being built in the Far East is just an economic decision determined by the fact that it is now 2011 and not 1963!

Viljami wrote:I'm betting that the 'branding a chinese-made instrument as Fender' won't last. Because of the corksniffers will scream bloody murder and the brand will lose value blah blah blah.

there have been korean and indonesian fenders for a few years now... nobody will notice or care if they shift the low-end manufacturing to china from mexico

Haze wrote:also available in lake placid blue

You just know these will die a death, then we'll all want one about 5 years after they're discontinued and pay over the score on eBay...

Viljami wrote:I'm betting that the 'branding a chinese-made instrument as Fender' won't last. Because of the corksniffers will scream bloody murder and the brand will lose value blah blah blah.

Like they did when MIM Fenders came out, i remember it well.. "Glorified Squiers" etc.
It will just make the Corksniffers more prentious, like the CIC's are for the kids and the USAs are for the seasoned players, lal.

Personally i dont think origin matters as long as quality is still there and this is an excellent decision, one of Fenders best in recent years concerning targeting a market were people have low budgets. My only eternal gripe is rehashing and lack of new design in the form of body shape, cant fault them for mixing hardware up even though half of it looks shite.

Indonesian? Haven't heard about that before. Anyway, you are probably right, as long as there's the custom shop the lawyers will be satisfied.

Mike wrote:None of this is new for Fender.

Fender have ALWAYS been about making affordable instruments for every day people. You must be confusing them with Gibson.

From day 1 Stratocasters and Telecasters were designed to be built at low cost by non-luthier labour. Things being built in the Far East is just an economic decision determined by the fact that it is now 2011 and not 1963!

They were still very much an expensive luxury item back then. The average wage of an American in the '50s was $3000; and that's the median average, certainly not lowest. Teles and Strats weighed in around $200-$250 so roughly a month's wage. Going by the consumer price index that's around $1750 in today's market. Mass-produced sure, but that didn't make them affordable for every day people in the same way that setting up shop in Mexico and Japan has been.

George wrote:

Mike wrote:None of this is new for Fender.

Fender have ALWAYS been about making affordable instruments for every day people. You must be confusing them with Gibson.

From day 1 Stratocasters and Telecasters were designed to be built at low cost by non-luthier labour. Things being built in the Far East is just an economic decision determined by the fact that it is now 2011 and not 1963!

They were still very much an expensive luxury item. The average wage of an American in the '50s was $3000; and that's the median average, certainly not lowest. Teles and Strats weighed in around $200-$250 so roughly a month's wage. Going by the consumer price index that's around $1750 in today's market. Mass-produced sure, but not affordable for every day people in the same way that setting up shop Mexico and Japan have been.

Good point. Although i tend to think we (modern guitar players) have lost sight of the value of a good quality guitar quite a lot, most of us own half a dozen or more, flip 'em and buy them at the drop of a hat.
In context, a good guitar will last you most of your lifetime and to pay one months wages for such an item is quite reasonable. A good guitar from a known brand will also never depreciate in value.

Sure but they were still aiming for a much lower price point than the competition. Things were much mor expensive. I mean, probably cost quite a bit to make those tele bridges, they dont just make those, they were invented at Fender.

I'll tell you what, the whole world will know about it when or if cheap Chinese labour stops. Because they have made most products ridiculously accessible to people with little money.

aen wrote:Sure but they were still aiming for a much lower price point than the competition. Things were much more expensive. I mean, probably cost quite a bit to make those tele bridges, they dont just make those, they were invented at Fender.

Well a Gibson Les Paul, arguably the biggest competition for the Strat and Tele, sold for around $300 in the 1950's. In this period I'd say there would have been much more craftsmanship involved with the set neck and binding and all that gumpf compared to the bolted together plank of Fender too. Teles and Strats really weren't the common man's guitar as much as you might think.

Fran wrote:Good point. Although i tend to think we (modern guitar players) have lost sight of the value of a good quality guitar quite a lot, most of us own half a dozen or more, flip 'em and buy them at the drop of a hat.
In context, a good guitar will last you most of your lifetime and to pay one months wages for such an item is quite reasonable. A good guitar from a known brand will also never depreciate in value.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but you of all people know to champion the underdog Asian-spun guitars that offer immense value for money. You can get things so close in quality to the big name brands at such a little price that will last just as long. The problem is I think people will look after expensive stuff and use it carefully because it's expensive - there's probably a psychological name for that effect somewhere (let's call it "Fabergé egg syndrome"). I think it's good we can flip guitars these days and try out new things and see what fits, and get decent guitars that won't cost a massive upset to our funds. I've discovered after selling quite a few of my "first" or "formative" guitars, that I didn't really care about the sentimental or monetary value of them - they're just tools at the end of the day, which I value in as much as how useful they are to me.

George wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you, but you of all people know to champion the underdog Asian-spun guitars that offer immense value for money. You can get things so close in quality to the big name brands at such a little price that will last just as long. The problem is I think people will look after expensive stuff and use it carefully because it's expensive - there's probably a psychological name for that effect somewhere (let's call it "Fabergé egg syndrome"). I think it's good we can flip guitars these days and try out new things and see what fits, and get decent guitars that won't cost a massive upset to our funds. I've discovered after selling quite a few of my "first" or "formative" guitars, that I didn't really care about the sentimental or monetary value of them - they're just tools at the end of the day.

Oh yeah, i totally agree. Its been an enjoyable period that would not have been an option to players of the past.
It just worries me guitars have become a bit disposable in a disposable society. Taken for granted. I mean, someone designed these things and made them in the first place, to the millimeter. It was intelligent craftsmanship. Just because they now use CNC machines and slave labour everybody expects amazing value for little money and in most cases they are getting it.

True, disposability and exploitation is sadly a much wider problem though innit. I'd love to buy British on everything but I'm not shelling out for a locally produced flatscreen TV that's been made predominantly with a lathe or something for thousands of pounds. Different derailment altogether but I think fair wages and rights can be introduced in countries like China and India relative to their cost of living whilst still turning out cost effective products, though maybe not quite as cheap.

Fran wrote:I'll tell you what, the whole world will know about it when or if cheap Chinese labour stops. Because they have made most products ridiculously accessible to people with little money.

They already are going to countries like India, Indonesia, etc. Eventually they'll go to Africa. Sadly, we're not going to run out of cheap labor any time soon.

dezb1 wrote:

Haze wrote:also available in lake placid blue

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You just know these will die a death, then we'll all want one about 5 years after they're discontinued and pay over the score on eBay...

I keep coming back to this.

Got ideas of a black pickguard and just a single humbucker in the bridge. Could be pretty neat I guess

Chinese manufacturing cost have already risen in the last decade. For many products it's not cheaper to make the products in China any more when you consider labor and transportation costs back to America. The thing China does however is incentivize or strong arm businesses who want to sell goods in the Chinese market which is huge.

So for instance if I make a high quality Solar Water Heater and want to sell it in China, the Chinese government will not allow me to import it unless a certain amount of my production is done in China.

Another thing the Chinese government does is provide very low interest loans for modern equipment like CNC machines, which is something that would greatly benefit a guitar maker like Fender, especially one that primarily makes solid bodies.