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Mike wrote: If that's the way their own employees feel about their output compared to the old stuff, then we really are all doomed.

interesting point. But to be true, it's Fender Japan that make the cool Fender guitars today, not Fender USA. Fender USA doesn't make any "real Mustangs" today, Fender Japan does. These are a bit overpriced in Europe, but are sold as official Fender products ... and still better priced than the AVRI Jazzmasters and Jaguars. Over the years, I've heard about several guitars by Fender Japan that would fit exactly the wishes of a european audience, like the Keith Richards Telecaster, the comp. an 65 Mustangs or the Fiesta Red Jags with matchinfg headstock.

Maybe people would have paid about 1.500 whatever currency for these guitars, but Fender USA sticks to not making any such guitars ... the other point is that Fender features their vintage stuff a lot. They are making me think that an old 1964 Jazzmaster is what I need ... sadly they have already sold all guitars they built 40 years ago ... strange policy.




And it's funny how a company that offers guitars of so many different qualities and origins wants to have a "premium" image associated with their name. Nearly impossible, mostly everybody has already seen a Fender of recent production that is crap - mine was a mexican Telecaster. Squier makes a lot better guitars than that one for half the money.

I can't make a broadstroked statement per se, but I did spend a few minutes with a Gibson Larry Carlton Signature "Mr. 335" an acquaintance (jazz guitarist Jack Lee, guitar received as a gift) had in his collection to know that something was very wrong when the strings didn't match the polepieces of either humbucker and the 6th string a tad close to the upper edge of the fretboard. Upon close inspection myself and the two others in the room confirmed the unexpected: The TOM bridge posts were collectively drilled about 2.0 mm off, resulting in one of the most retarded flaws a $4000 Custom Shop guitar could have and still see the light of day.

ultratwin wrote:I can't make a broadstroked statement per se, but I did spend a few minutes with a Gibson Larry Carlton Signature "Mr. 335" an acquaintance (jazz guitarist Jack Lee, guitar received as a gift) had in his collection to know that something was very wrong when the strings didn't match the polepieces of either humbucker and the 6th string a tad close to the upper edge of the fretboard. Upon close inspection myself and the two others in the room confirmed the unexpected: The TOM bridge posts were collectively drilled about 2.0 mm off, resulting in one of the most retarded flaws a $4000 Custom Shop guitar could have and still see the light of day.

ive heard similar stories. a guy i used to know ordered a 335 direct and it arrived with the high e not even on the fret board at all near the neck joint. the bridge and tailpiece simply werent centered on the bottom edge radius at all. needles to say, he sent it back.

i dont buy new guitars, cars, bicycles, clothing, or videogames, unless the company is small and particularly deserving. my 04 AMSTD ash tele is an incredible guitar for 500 bucks. my silvertone is perhaps the best sounding guitar ive ever heard and cost the same as a squier standard strat. buying used you just get a better guitar for the money, you just can't always get exactly what you want exactly when you want it, sometimes.

there are so many guitars out there. if fender is getting it wrong, sales will reflect this and they will change. if not, then we truly do represent a niche that they don't really have to care about. sadly, i think the latter may be true.

in some ways im glad fender is out of touch. i will make my guitars the way i want them, regardless of what fender does. don't we have enough fun making our monstrosities as it is, without fenders help? isn't it sort of a little more fun to DIY anyway?

Thing is Fender aren't out of touch. We are just not their market.

Same goes for Gibson.

I've said it before, Robroe needs to put his Management degree to practice and take over Squier.

I've repaired quite a few new(er) gibsons and I have yet to see a single one that i would ever consider dropping 800+ dollars on.
I had a LesPaul special ( the one with P-100s) in the other day with frets that hadn't even been leveled.

Nick wrote:Honestly, I've never seen any examples of shoddy fretwork being common on any Gibson, aside from maybe the melody makers every once in a while. Do you even play enough Gibsons to make such bogus claims? Is it one of those things where if enough people believe it it's true? Or does every gibson get dropped and poorly refretted on its way over the pond? I got dogpiled for my opinions on Behringer's QC when I actually had several behringer products either break or arrive defective out of the box, surely this is every bit as ridiculous.

My point was that for what they are, American fenders cost too much, there's not enough available, and the japanese/mexi models aren't "real" fenders to me. Call that snobbish if you will.

I've noticed the same things with Gibsons as well. Just about every SG special I have ever played has had terrible fretwork, and has seriously felt like it's going to slice my fingers off if I slide my hand too fast across the fretboard. The GC in raleigh once had an SG standard where the fretboard wasn't even properly lined up with the neck! That was the absolute worst thing I've ever seen on a $1,000 + guitar.

euan wrote:Thing is Fender aren't out of touch. We are just not their market.

Same goes for Gibson.

+1. I'm sure they are muh more invested in 50+ year old weekend warriors and blues rock bedroom riffers.

Aye. And I bet Fender's target market isn't Dwarfcrafts target market if it had anything of the sort.

If I ever wanted a Strat or Tele, I would build one myself. It's easy to make the guitar you want for like $700 that specs-wise is just as good as anything the Fender custom shop would offer.

I love the dumb bastards on ebay that take a MIM jazz/p bass or strat/tele and use the power sander on it, and its so obvious they used a sander, and state the auction as "RARE RELIC'D" blah blah blah. Nothing rare you jackasses.

If they were 200$ cheaper, I'd consider a 50's P bass...beyond that, now that I have a Jazz, I'm done with Fender. Ridiculous.

Billy3000 wrote:

Nick wrote:Honestly, I've never seen any examples of shoddy fretwork being common on any Gibson, aside from maybe the melody makers every once in a while. Do you even play enough Gibsons to make such bogus claims? Is it one of those things where if enough people believe it it's true? Or does every gibson get dropped and poorly refretted on its way over the pond? I got dogpiled for my opinions on Behringer's QC when I actually had several behringer products either break or arrive defective out of the box, surely this is every bit as ridiculous.

My point was that for what they are, American fenders cost too much, there's not enough available, and the japanese/mexi models aren't "real" fenders to me. Call that snobbish if you will.

I've noticed the same things with Gibsons as well. Just about every SG special I have ever played has had terrible fretwork, and has seriously felt like it's going to slice my fingers off if I slide my hand too fast across the fretboard. The GC in raleigh once had an SG standard where the fretboard wasn't even properly lined up with the neck! That was the absolute worst thing I've ever seen on a $1,000 + guitar.

Usually those sharp edges on the fretboard are caused by changes in humidity, not poor quality control. I doubt they left the factory with frets like that. I'm not saying youse guys are lying, I'm just saying that I know what rubbish frets feel like, and I can almost be positive, that if I walk into either of the decent shops around here and play every gibson on the wall, I don't think I'll find a "dud".


Honestly, all that ever comes out of these disputes is wasted time. All I was trying to say in the first place was that I liked the way Gibson presented their lineup and preserved their name and product better than what Fender's been doing. I'd like to see the fender name exclusive to the American models, with variety at every price point, not just the cheap stuff. Fender seems to think that if you want an American Fender strat, that must mean you either want black or sunburst. And if you want more variety then you either have to take a step down and go mexi, or spend $3000 for a vintage correct version of a $1000 guitar.

aen wrote:

euan wrote:Thing is Fender aren't out of touch. We are just not their market.

Same goes for Gibson.

+1. I'm sure they are muh more invested in 50+ year old weekend warriors and blues rock bedroom riffers.

its funny, fender aren't out of touch with their market, but their market is out of touch musically. i think we are talking about 2 different things here.

if fender wanted to be "cutting edge," or have some kind of "cred," they would be serving the younger crowd. thing is, young greasy indie kids dont have any money, and the people who have the money dont idolize young greasy indie kids.

when young greasy indie gets grow up and get "real" jobs, they will have money but being young and greasy and indie wont be cool anymore.

also, alot of artists with integrity might not want anything to do with fender, as far as promotions or endorsements. there's no frank black tele, kevin shields jazzmaster, tina weymouth mustang bass, and it might not be because fender wouldn't do it. i dunno.

fender is testing out a younger market as gen-x is getting older though. there is the j mascis jazzy and the upcoming thurston moore and lee renaldo models.

Nick wrote:Honestly, I've never seen any examples of shoddy fretwork being common on any Gibson, aside from maybe the melody makers every once in a while. Do you even play enough Gibsons to make such bogus claims? Is it one of those things where if enough people believe it it's true? Or does every gibson get dropped and poorly refretted on its way over the pond? I got dogpiled for my opinions on Behringer's QC when I actually had several behringer products either break or arrive defective out of the box, surely this is every bit as ridiculous.

My point was that for what they are, American fenders cost too much, there's not enough available, and the japanese/mexi models aren't "real" fenders to me. Call that snobbish if you will.

Well that is completely snobbish, so don't be surprised if people call you on it. Why do you attach so much importance to it being made in America as opposed to Mexico? All those Vintage Fenders that go for tens of thousands? Made by cheap Mexican Labour just across the border. It is a non issue.

I have plenty of Gibson experience and have played guitars at all their price points. I play a lot of guitars when I go to London to nosy around Denmart Street, I've also played a lot of Gibsons owned by friends and bands we've played with. I played a £3,000 Les Paul Custom at Doog's house once, it was fucking ridiculous. The neck felt divorced from the instrument. Alignment is poor often, fretwork is gash. It should speak volumes that magazines like Guitarist are constantly talking about Gibson QC issues, even though Gibson advertise in their magazine. That says it all in my opinion

Just buy one of those shitting Highway 1 or whatever things with the paint that comes off with water.

Has anybody checked Musician's Friend today?!?!? They just put up the pre-order for these things. $950 for the guitars. $1200 for the p-bass, and $1250 for the jazz bass. They don't even come with a case... they come with a fucking gig bag... These basses cost more than my american standard P bass that I just bought a couple months ago!!!

This is fucking ridiculous!!

Watch the American Standard prices. Everything is going up.

It's an across the board price hike. Welcome to the recession.

glad i bought my mim now than later...
werent(sp?) Gibson SG standards like a thousand last january?
thats sick they shouldnt be that expensive.......