ShortScale.org

+1

That's pretty much electric-super-sex right there.

The Fender Toronado(MIM 1st version) I had sucked almost completely. The pickups, neck, and overall tones were below standard. It looked neat and balanced nice.

If Fender did this guitar with a 25.5 scale and better pickups they might have something. When I read things like it blows away a Les Paul for rock tones I just laugh, only on shortscale.

I'd rather have a gibson les paul than my early MIM toronado. thats for sure.

There's no accounting for taste.

jcyphe wrote:The Fender Toronado(MIM 1st version) I had sucked almost completely. The pickups, neck, and overall tones were below standard. It looked neat and balanced nice.

If Fender did this guitar with a 25.5 scale and better pickups they might have something. When I read things like it blows away a Les Paul for rock tones I just laugh, only on shortscale.

Yeah, I wouldn't agree either. I think the GT is comparible a to a SG though, I've had enough SGs to compare.

Fran wrote:

jcyphe wrote:The Fender Toronado(MIM 1st version) I had sucked almost completely. The pickups, neck, and overall tones were below standard. It looked neat and balanced nice.

If Fender did this guitar with a 25.5 scale and better pickups they might have something. When I read things like it blows away a Les Paul for rock tones I just laugh, only on shortscale.

Yeah, I wouldn't agree either. I think the GT is comparible a to a SG though, I've had enough SGs to compare.

To be honest I was so un-impressed by the first MIM Toronado I never investigated the other model too thoroughly, especially since they didn't catch my eye visually and still had the same scale length which I think is odd on a Fender.

The Fender Cyclone 1st version which was the same scale as the Deluxe Toronado and had much of the same construction in regards to neck quality and humbuckers left me equally unimpressed. So that's an 0-2 for Fender with the 24.75 scale in my books.

The GT has the best feel out of 3 versions I've tried, possibly the worst looking though to hear everyone talk.
I don't notice scale length much to be honest, I habitually play in certain positions and don't really notice much difference from the mustang, toronado or strat. Sounds odd but it's true. Radius, fret gauge and neck profile is more noticeable to me.

aesthetically i quite like the red and blue GTs. never played one, but they sound ok from what i've heard.

I'm undecided on this, I played a Mexican Toronado last year in a shop. It was a little beat up but it felt great, really solid and had a really good sound. Maybe they're a bit hit and miss as far as quality goes, I dunno. I've never had experience with any of the other models though either so maybe that's a rating factor on why the mex felt so good. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it had a sound as suited to rock as a Gibson but I'd have taken it over any gibby I've played just based on the feel of it.

jcyphe wrote:

Fran wrote:

jcyphe wrote:The Fender Toronado(MIM 1st version) I had sucked almost completely. The pickups, neck, and overall tones were below standard. It looked neat and balanced nice.

If Fender did this guitar with a 25.5 scale and better pickups they might have something. When I read things like it blows away a Les Paul for rock tones I just laugh, only on shortscale.

Yeah, I wouldn't agree either. I think the GT is comparible a to a SG though, I've had enough SGs to compare.

To be honest I was so un-impressed by the first MIM Toronado I never investigated the other model too thoroughly, especially since they didn't catch my eye visually and still had the same scale length which I think is odd on a Fender.

The Fender Cyclone 1st version which was the same scale as the Deluxe Toronado and had much of the same construction in regards to neck quality and humbuckers left me equally unimpressed. So that's an 0-2 for Fender with the 24.75 scale in my books.

if you never played an american special, i'd reserve judgment. i played a super bright yellow mim toronado at a sam ash before i ordered my american model. i loved the neck and the balance, but the tones were awful on the mim. . . really didn't like the bridge or the guard, either. what i dig about the fender version of the 24.75" scale is they do it without making the neck a baseball bat, a drawback that the gibsons and hamers i've owned all had. didn't feel like a fender, maybe, but it damn sure didn't feel like a gibson.

as to this notion of where to put fenders with 24.75" scales or if gibsons fit in this section. . . this site is decidedly fender, so i'd say any fender guitars shorter than the classic 25.5" scale should go here. for one thing, a section dedicated to the "in between" scale models made by fender would be pretty small. anyway, this is the section we decided to put these guitars in, though i could see if one had trouble reading how they might get confused. =]

dots wrote: as to this notion of where to put fenders with 24.75" scales or if gibsons fit in this section. . . this site is decidedly fender, so i'd say any fender guitars shorter than the classic 25.5" scale should go here. for one thing, a section dedicated to the "in between" scale models made by fender would be pretty small. anyway, this is the section we decided to put these guitars in, though i could see if one had trouble reading how they might get confused. =]

so, to "dot the t's" on this point:
discussion of Gibson Les Pauls- clearly with more claim to being an "original short scale guitar", as the first sentence of the sub-forum description reads, than a Fender cyclone, since it is "original", the Cyclone isn't and they have the same scale- nevertheless does not go here, because there is an unstated but implicit assumption that should be "read" that this is solely about fender. [Though those words are not here to be read.]

And where should discussion of the following makers' guitars go?
Squier, Daisy Rock, silvertone, Harmony, epiphone,Aria?
Because right now they are all here.
Evidently more people than you would like "have trouble reading", max clarity would help, for their benefit, IMO.

really?

Sort your life out.

They should go wherever robroe decides to move the thread to.

I would have thought it was clear that Shortscale refers to shortscale Fenders. I.e. all Fenders under 25.5" in scale length.

Clearly not. Some people are having difficulties.

The fact the subtitle of the Shortscales forum contains only the models of Fender/Squier guitars was not a hint to anyone?

Reece wrote:They should go wherever robroe decides to move the thread to.

Well that's a good answer, at least.

If I remember correctly, there was some debate about this when the forum started, and there has been debate since.

I don't think it's possible to distinguish between shortscale and non-shrotscale in such a way as can't be argued against. A line has been drawn somewhere, and although it might not be perfect for the reasons pointed out, it does work. Most importantly, it allows for members to know what to expect in a particular forum.

Mike wrote:The fact the subtitle of the Shortscales forum contains only the models of Fender/Squier guitars was not a hint to anyone?

Well I've never really posted about Gibsons even though they ARE shortscale (as per the definition) but that's part of the idiosyncrasy of this forum. SS has alway been more chilled/fun than the average forum tho I do believe that the Fender association is the "corksniffer" element here. Not really in a bad way , in a sense it defines this forum so that's cool.

24 3/4 is still full scale to me